LMG Aim time

You number are seem to be abit off, this is dps of tommies are according to firespaks:
2 brens+2 enf 18.2 19.0 19.6 20.2 20.8 21.5 21.8 21.6
4 Endfields 19.1 18.4 17.1 15.9 14.9 13.9 12.7 11.6



2 Brens according to firesparks give 10 DPS not 8.

Hm, stats.hu on the other hand says brens(tommy brens) DPS is 6.34 while timmy lees are 3.08 far, which means 4x lees is ~12 while with dual brens+lees its ~18,8 which gives us ~6-7 dps difference.

I admit though, my first numbers were out of memory for brens.

You number are seem to be abit off, this is dps of tommies are according to firespaks:
2 brens+2 enf 18.2 19.0 19.6 20.2 20.8 21.5 21.8 21.6
4 Endfields 19.1 18.4 17.1 15.9 14.9 13.9 12.7 11.6



2 Brens according to firesparks give 10 DPS not 8.

I assume Katitof used the DPS stats from here, which seems to use its own methodology.

Beaten to the punch.

His point still holds though:

Loadout	Range 0	Range 35
2 Brens/2 Enfield	18.2	21.6
4 Enfield	19.1	11.6
1 LMG42/3 KAR98K	23.6	16.0
4 KAR98K	23.0	9.0

Brens each give a 5 DPS increase while LMG42s give a 7 DPS increase. Add in the Grenadier's vet 40% accuracy bonus compared to the Infantry Section's vet 3 20% accuracy bonus (plus an additional 15-20% DPS on two models thanks to the Scoped Lee-Enfields) and it should come out fairly balanced (Grens better in close, IS better at long range).

With the coming patch, every faction will have nondoctrinal heavy machine guns that counter A-moving blobs.

The problem I still see especially with obers is them sniping the mg gunner of allied mgs especially Vickers. Lmg obers make Vickers useless unless they are heavily supported. I understand this happens to axis mgs with M1919 blobs but it's less of an issue since RM are less accurate and mg42s pinn faster.

Obviously support your hmgs but that isn't always possible so I think a small aim time increase would make sense. Buff lmgs accordingly to compensate.

Of all the gardening blobs. LMGs. ffs.

Next thing you know, people will complain about medic blobs.

Though if this is more about the LMG themselves then all they need is a cover system like the tommies have. Maybe added range or faster reload

His point still holds though:
Brens each give a 5 DPS increase while LMG42s give a 7 DPS increase....

Not sure what the point here. That Brens are balanced and Lmg42 are not?

Lmg42 are an upgrade for grenadier, Brens and M1919A6 are available for more infantry squads. If one makes the same calculations for Ro.E and R.E. both weapon will be far more efficient than Lmg42.

An analysis of comparing Bren M1919A6 and Lmg42 by comparing Tommie's, Rifleman's and Grenadier increment in DPS for coming to the conclusion that Lmg42 is OP, is simply flawed...

Most of this is also off topic, since the thread is not about balancing Lmg vs one another, but about Lmg blobs.

Not sure what the point here. That Brens are balanced and Lmg42 are not?

Lmg42 are an upgrade for grenadier, Brens and M1919A6 are available for more infantry squads. If one makes the same calculations for Ro.E and R.E. both weapon will be far more efficient than Lmg42.

An analysis of comparing Bren M1919A6 and Lmg42 by comparing Tommie's, Rifleman's and Grenadier increment in DPS for coming to the conclusion that Lmg42 is OP, is simply flawed...

Most of this is also off topic, since the thread is not about balancing Lmg vs one another, but about Lmg blobs.

I think Katitof's point was more that dual-Brens are balanced against single LMG42s.

I'll certainly agree that having a better Bren (Sapper Bren) is one of the things that makes Sappers a bit OP.

Either way, increasing the aim-time on the Gren LMG42 seems unnecessary. Grens aren't really durable enough for an a-moving blob to be a massive issue.

...
I think Katitof's point was more that dual-Brens are balanced against single LMG42s.
...
Either way, increasing the aim-time on the Gren LMG42 seems unnecessary. Grens aren't really durable enough for an a-moving blob to be a massive issue.

No idea what his point actually is, what he has written though is that only the Bren is balanced, which leave as innuendo that Lmg42 is OP and 1919A6 is not cost efficient because it is more expensive.

The thread is not about Gren LMG blobs specifically but LMG blob in general...

I thought it'd be interesting if the LMG's were something like a turbo-maxim, in that it takes a short amount of time to set up or reposition (still done automatically by the soldier). That'd make close quarters a bad place for them, but they'll stay just as effective at safer ranges.

Sure nerf poor Guard even more, LMG blob has been a problem since Allied lack effective HMG to control em, LMG should be something that deals good dmg but more affected by cover than rifle, I think that would make more sense.

Just because LMGs are currently balanced and have been used and accepted by the community for ages, doesn't mean we shouldn't be reevaluating their position in the game.

From a thematic / authenticity standpoint the ingame representation does not accurately model an LMG's squad support function. So you're telling me you can field a platoon of riflemen that carries TWELVE 1919s in total? Yeah, right.

Aim time increase is a good idea. Other acceptable solutions:

- they should take up two weapon slots. IMO this is the best way to balance them. No double LMGs on any squad. DPs, Brens, and M1919 should be buffed to correspond to this (and made more expensive). Maybe guards should keep double (buffed) DPs as a heavy infantry flavour thing (this would have the fortunate effect of differentiating Guards and making them formidable. Poor Guards need some love.)

- Squads with the LMG should lose their snares or grenades. The justification being, the rest of the squadmembers drops their AT ordnance or grenades to carry more ammo for the LMG.

Grens with LMG42 lose faust or riflegrenade. Riflemen with 1919 lose smoke or grenade.Tommies with Bren lose their grenade. Guards and Obers are special cases. Obers are a T4 purely anti infantry unit basically balanced around being an LMG squad and therefore penalizing them for getting an LMG would be insane. Guards are in a special place at the moment where they could use some extra oomph so maybe their redeeming quality would be that they also get no penalties for using the LMG.

- they should decrease the assault potential of the squad somehow. Perhaps the first few seconds after each reposition of the LMG squad member should come with 50% lower accuracy.

- they could have a penalty when not shooting from cover. The problem with this solution is that it would take away the uniqueness of the Brits' infantry sections' cover mechanic.

In short, make LMGs even more powerful if you have to, but make them an option with downsides, instead of a straight upgrade. An ideal solution will have players want to have a mix of LMG troops and non-LMG troops.