Synthesizing the responses and it seems that the unit is not particularly OP, but should probably have their pop size increased by 1 maybe 2.
On a side note, the PFs and Riflemen need their rifle AT nades to work better.
Nerf Panzerfusiliers
12 May 2016, 18:15 PM
#21
4 
Posts: 141
12 May 2016, 19:14 PM
#22
Posts: 362
Side note: I think the other Breakthrough infantry unit, the Sturm Offizier, needs a popcap decrease.
12 May 2016, 20:28 PM
#23
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
This thread wouldn't alarm are usual Axis users if you just said, increase popcap by 1/2 
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
13 May 2016, 10:46 AM
#24
Posts: 911
Also, 2 BARs gives you 28 close range DPS and about 10 long range DPS.
PFs G43s give you 30 close range and 6 long range DPS.
Hardly any disparity here considering the cost difference+PFs are getting extra vision on top of it.
Where are you getting that from?
According to http://www.stat.coh2.hu/ Bars have 5 long and 15 close, and PF G43s have 2 far and 10 close
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=panzerfusilier_g43
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=riflemen_bar_30_06_light_machine_gun_mp
Imagine my playercard is here
13 May 2016, 10:48 AM
#25
Posts: 911
They are a six man squad. It would be extremely overpowered if they had substantial received accuracy bonuses and it is therefore disingenuous to cite that as their weak point that needs to be offset somehow.
Show me where I said that they need to be offset somehow
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13 May 2016, 11:18 AM
#26
1 
Posts: 2885
I feel they don't even need the pop change. With volks becoming AI unit there needs to be a reason to choose breakthrough doctrine any more and it wasn't even a popular choice before.
13 May 2016, 11:19 AM
#27
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Where are you getting that from?
According to http://www.stat.coh2.hu/ Bars have 5 long and 15 close, and PF G43s have 2 far and 10 close
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=panzerfusilier_g43
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=riflemen_bar_30_06_light_machine_gun_mp
And now, consider the number of weapons on the squad.
2 BARs vs 3 G43s.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 May 2016, 13:45 PM
#28
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
Well, my infatry sections beat them any time, so i do not care.
13 May 2016, 13:59 PM
#29
Posts: 284
I would rather decrease their CP...
IS and rifles are just better, and by the time you unlock PFs, allied infantry already on vet1 and got enough munition for 2 weapon upgrade. 2 CP is not the right time for PF i think... they are not shocktroops...
IS and rifles are just better, and by the time you unlock PFs, allied infantry already on vet1 and got enough munition for 2 weapon upgrade. 2 CP is not the right time for PF i think... they are not shocktroops...
13 May 2016, 14:53 PM
#30
Posts: 728
There suppose to be a dedicated AI unit only problem I have with them is that they have an AT snare. Seems like too many options for them. It like if pathfinders had a AT snare or something.
EDIT Think this was because okw didn't have it on there basic infantry, now that they will I think it should be removed.
EDIT Think this was because okw didn't have it on there basic infantry, now that they will I think it should be removed.
13 May 2016, 14:56 PM
#31
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
There suppose to be a dedicated AI unit only problem I have with them is that they have an AT snare. Seems like too many options for them. It like if pathfinders had a AT snare or something.
EDIT Think this was because okw didn't have it on there basic infantry, now that they will I think it should be removed.
PFs always were general infantry replacement to me, their toolkit supports exactly that, mobility, field presence, active ability with nades and AT nades.
Thats general infantry, not AI specialist.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 May 2016, 15:01 PM
#32
Posts: 728
PFs always were general infantry replacement to me, their toolkit supports exactly that, mobility, field presence, active ability with nades and AT nades.
Thats general infantry, not AI specialist.
Yes, but in light of volks getting a snare? Like all call in allied units don't have snares but even ostruppen do. I just feel like as allies this is going to completely kill light vehicle play and ez8 - t85 flanks are going to be fucked because you almost any infantry they got can snare you and your just fucked 99% of the time when that happens as you know. Sure they wont have shreks anymore but they will compensate with rakaten spam.
13 May 2016, 15:04 PM
#33
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
In light of volks getting a snare they are simply an upgrade over them.
More durable, more firepower, more utility, give nothing up in return, higher cost.
PFs role was always volk replacement.
More durable, more firepower, more utility, give nothing up in return, higher cost.
PFs role was always volk replacement.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
13 May 2016, 15:33 PM
#34
Posts: 677
...
Yes, but in light of volks getting a snare?...
P.F.'s AT grenade the worse AT grenade because it does the least damage (and it has a minimum range like other rifle AT grenades), the impact of removing or leaving as it is will be minimal if V.G. get Panz.F.
13 May 2016, 15:48 PM
#35
Posts: 728
We will see how it plays out I was more for the creating a 4 man AT squad than fixing the shrek problem by giving volks faust instead. The advantage against okw early was always that you knew they pretty much can't snare you just like luchs against brits early game. I think it will have a big impact on USF with the the reg sherman and ez8 survivabilty going way down being constantly crippled.
I don't know that the dmg really matters most AT snares need the vehicle to be dmged first before it will work anyway. You use it for the cripple not the dmg at least imo.
I don't know that the dmg really matters most AT snares need the vehicle to be dmged first before it will work anyway. You use it for the cripple not the dmg at least imo.
13 May 2016, 18:31 PM
#36
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Show me where I said that they need to be offset somehowOkay, I will try to explain what I meant.
Sandreas said:
They are way to good for their cost. They have everything, weapon upgrade, nade, snare and are 6 man.
And you said:
"Except their weapon upgrade is outclassed by brens, bars, and 1919s
Except their snare has low pen.
Except they have little received accuracy bonuses.
You listed their small received accuracy bonus as a counterpoint to the argument listing their positive sides. Note that I am not saying if they are balanced or not; but you yourself are here offsetting their strengths with an absence of an oddly specific veterancy bonus, presenting it as a weakness somehow.
is weird because they get extremely good veterancy bonuses as is (including permasprint), and because substantial received accuracy bonuses have no place on a 6 man squad. What else is this if not trying to offset actual listed strength with a nonexistent weakness? You might as well list as a weakness that they don't have a flamer upgrade, or that they don't get an extra squadmember with vet3. Of course they don't; why would they?
To illustrate, let's say Relic lowers the cost of IS2 in the next patch by 20% and then I come and say "Yeah it has low cost, but it receives no armour bonus with veterancy" - as if it is relevant, as if it is some sort of a negative, as if therefore the IS2 would deserve the buff somehow.
14 May 2016, 01:21 AM
#37
Posts: 1954
At 290MP and 6 popcap, I think Panzerfusiliers are slightly overperforming and could do with a very small nerf. I'd like to suggest the following changes:
- MP cost from 290 to 330
- Popcap from 6 to 7 (normalizes them with most other line infantry units)
- Gewehr 43 upgrade no longer gives increased sight (mostly just to encourage use of the flare ability)
That's all.
This would make them expensive AND useless. Their popcap should be 7 or 8. Other than that, they are fine. Well, except for the snare being about as bad as the USF one. Short range snares should go off reliably, quickly, and have no minimum distance.
14 May 2016, 02:55 AM
#38
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
If you compare their popcap to other infantry, it's clear they need to be raised by 1-2. It's unreasonable to say it shouldn't be upped. That's really their only problem.
Oh, and they should fix the snare animation along with the USF one. More of a QOL change than a balance one.
Oh, and they should fix the snare animation along with the USF one. More of a QOL change than a balance one.
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