(May Preview Mod) Penal Batalion
10 May 2016, 10:37 AM
#21
Posts: 420
Penals are the long range non doc unit soviets need.
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
10 May 2016, 11:00 AM
#24
Posts: 1653
if penals dont beat lmg grens at long range then they will not be used, also flamer dont fit long range unit
+1 op isnt even playing the game enoughh to get 1v1 rank rofl. but he is surely balance specialist
Disagree, haven't played 1v1 for a long time in automatch since I've to work and am not bothered to play 1s in the evenings because 1 I'm too tired and 2 I prefer to play with my friends in the evening.
10 May 2016, 11:04 AM
#27
Posts: 677
Penals are the long range non doc unit soviets need.
Only they are not long range infantry. Long range infantry are weak close range. Penal are very good at all ranges...
10 May 2016, 11:23 AM
#28
Posts: 420
Only they are not long range infantry. Long range infantry are weak close range. Penal are very good at all ranges...
Yes and no, they lose against specialist cqc units like pgrens sturmpios in a close range situation. However the thing is, conscript suck at longrange, therefore soviets need maxims for long range situations leading to maxim spam.
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
10 May 2016, 11:35 AM
#31
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Only they are not long range infantry. Long range infantry are weak close range. Penal are very good at all ranges...
Yes.
Its AI specialist that is good at all ranges, but doesn't excel any any particular one.
Its DPS is comparable to a tad cheaper generalist no tech unit, rifles.
Just like rifles, except rifles are much tougher to kill, better equipped and provide more support through upgrades, vet and doctrines.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 May 2016, 11:36 AM
#32
Posts: 673
Here is da another great plan from MissCommissar:
1. Take T1.
2. Move penals out.
3. Move guards in.
4. Done.
T1 getting : good combat squad, which makes reasonable to take T1 instead of mortars and maxim, AT squad.
1. Take T1.
2. Move penals out.
3. Move guards in.
4. Done.
T1 getting : good combat squad, which makes reasonable to take T1 instead of mortars and maxim, AT squad.
10 May 2016, 11:37 AM
#33
Posts: 738
Speaking as someone who's played a bunch of sov games in the preview I would agree.
Penals imo are over performing, they're not crazy OP but compare them to rifles/tommies that are 280 and they are night and day superior. Better DPS at all ranges and an extra man for 20 more mp..
People will bring up the "you have no AT grenade" argument but soviets have guards/AT partisans in like half their doctrines that can deal with 222/flame HT/Luch fine until T-70 or T-34/76.
Penals imo are over performing, they're not crazy OP but compare them to rifles/tommies that are 280 and they are night and day superior. Better DPS at all ranges and an extra man for 20 more mp..
People will bring up the "you have no AT grenade" argument but soviets have guards/AT partisans in like half their doctrines that can deal with 222/flame HT/Luch fine until T-70 or T-34/76.
10 May 2016, 11:47 AM
#34
Posts: 1653
Yes.
Its AI specialist that is good at all ranges, but doesn't excel any any particular one.
Its DPS is comparable to a tad cheaper generalist no tech unit, rifles.
Just like rifles, except rifles are much tougher to kill, better equipped and provide more support through upgrades, vet and doctrines.
Only the tad cheaper unit you're talking about has only 4 or 5 man. Which means 1 unit gives 10 more dmg per shot, which results in unfair balance, since there is no squad able to beat the unit unless it gets outflankedm which only 15% of the whole mappool give the chance to.
10 May 2016, 12:14 PM
#35
Posts: 692
Taking away PPSHs is what was needed. Penals are in a good spot now. They are expensive and are in T1 with 0 AT capability.
A lot of commanders just opened up too, now that soviets arent relegated to spamming shitty cons / maxims in the absence of elite call in infantry
A lot of commanders just opened up too, now that soviets arent relegated to spamming shitty cons / maxims in the absence of elite call in infantry
10 May 2016, 12:39 PM
#36
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Only the tad cheaper unit you're talking about has only 4 or 5 man. Which means 1 unit gives 10 more dmg per shot, which results in unfair balance, since there is no squad able to beat the unit unless it gets outflankedm which only 15% of the whole mappool give the chance to.
Vet differences make both of them equally or more durable actually.
Bear in mind that it doesn't matter how many rifles there are, but the final squad DPS. For example grens and volks have almost the same DPS despite having different number of men in squad, therefore volks are considerably superior for only 10 more mp, however they fall short with veterance and upgrades taken into consideration.
There is similar difference here, Penals look better out of the gate, but once vetted and upgraded, its both, rifles and tommies having the lead.
You're also not considering that both axis armies have bonus MP out of the gate and penals require a separate specialist and more expensive T1 building which comes after ost generalist T1.
Against penal user, you'll always have numerical and suppression advantage.
Volks might struggle, but kubels will rape and force sov to spend fuel on M3 or pick doctrine for guards(I'm waiting for the day when M-42 will be a valid option :foreveralone
.Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
10 May 2016, 15:04 PM
#37
Posts: 677
Its AI specialist that is good at all ranges, but doesn't excel any any particular one.
Its DPS is comparable to a tad cheaper generalist no tech unit, rifles.
Just like rifles, except rifles are much tougher to kill, better equipped and provide more support through upgrades, vet and doctrines.
There actually excel at all ranges and things become far worse with the vertancy bonuses
new panls 5.82 (0) 6.21 (10) 5.53 (20) 3.88(30)
(I used the number from miragelfa provided these are the number from firesparks calculation)
penal_troops_svt_rifle_mp(preview) 5.82 (0) 5.83(5) 4.54 (10) 3.51(15) 2.90 (20) 2.45(25) 2.09(30) 1.80(35)
compared to riflemen:
m1_garand_rifle_rifleman_mp 6.77(0) 4.33(10) 2.80(20) 1.98(30)
Penal are allot better squad dps since there 6 instead of 5 rifles
Penal/Riflemen squad ratio is:
25% 31% 31% 22%.
Penal are better than most infantry at all ranges Penal will beat a LMG gren ( both vet3, range 35 heavy cover) and will break even PG at close range (even if both vet 3, but they will tear apart PG inf they try to close in and will beat them in range. (and keep in mind Pg are a T2 unit and cost more).
10 May 2016, 15:32 PM
#38
Posts: 1653
There actually excel at all ranges and things become far worse with the vertancy bonuses
According to Miragelfa numbers the DPS of Penal should be:
new panls 5.82 (0) 6.21 (10) 5.53 (20) 3.88(30)
compared to riflemen:
m1_garand_rifle_rifleman_mp 6.77(0) 4.33(10) 2.80(20) 1.98(30)
Penal are allot better squad dps since there 6 instead of 5 rifles
Penal/Riflemen squad ratio is:
28% 43% 59% 59%.
Penal are better than most infantry at all ranges Penal will beat a LMG gren ( both vet3, range 35 heavy cover) and will break even PG at close range (even if both vet 3, but they will tear apart PG inf they try to close in and will beat them in range. (and keep in mind Pg are a T2 unit and cost more).
+1, Good luck fighting Obersoldaten v 2.5
10 May 2016, 15:34 PM
#39
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
They could move Penals to a higher tier but that would just be a buff because then you wouldn't have to build the absolute trash Tier 1 at all 
10 May 2016, 15:40 PM
#40
Posts: 40
seems odd that they are almost equivalent to obers, I mean same strength as riflemen would make most sense to me and make it more symmetrical at least for allied factions, adding flamethrower for improved close range dps and anti building seems good enough on top of that. I haven't played with/against them yet so I don't really know though, just an impression
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