The Panzerjäger Doctrine [New Commander Idea]

Not much more work than Heavy Cavalry doctrine. 1 tank, 1 squad and 1 weapon.

This is, of coarse, a suggestion from a member of the community, so I'd try not to push it too far. 1 squad, no problem. 1 squad, and a static team weapon that requires advanced animation mechanics alongside models, voice lines, and multiple new abilities... it's right at the limit of what I can really ask for. Not to mention, it's a lot easier to make an in-game testing mod for this (which I am doing currently). If Relic were to show interest in helping out with this project, I wouldn't see why not.

I would prefer the Jagtpanther because of one reason: it would fit the original idea of the OKW (fast aggressive faction) much more then the 8.8 does. The game right now is already much to static and the 8.8 would fit more into Ostheer. I really like the concept of this, regarding the current trend to remove Panzerschrecks from Volks w/o adding a decent alternative (except the raketen)

The commander itself looks pretty cool but wouldn't it just bring back the Shreckproblem and lock it behind a paywall?

The commander itself looks pretty cool but wouldn't it just bring back the Shreckproblem and lock it behind a paywall?

If a four man squad with 2 rifles at 340 mp and 9 pop cap can be blobbed, I really want to see it.

How many seconds would it be before a double BAR 3 star vet rifle counter blob tear into it will be amusing... I mean, they aren't vet 5 volksgren.... he is proposing a whole new unit.

I don't really see the problem with riegels being planted by something else than a halftrack.
Or if that's such a big deal, why not have a call-in with an ammo carrier (think PE ammo HT) 251/250 with that ability? Would be an interesting addition.
And of course, who wouldn't want jagdpanthers instead of PaK43s, but that's unattainable.

Like the idea, though not what OP wrote out.

Personally I'd do a Panzerjeager commander like so:

1) Vehicle Awareness: Passive ability; all/ some infantry squads will reveal nearby enemy vehicles in the minimap.
OR
This is a toggle ability, and squads will be camouflaged but immobile and cannot attack while toggled. This is similar to a cut feature from the game.

2) Panzerbuchse Battlegoup: 250 Halftrack carrying a squad of Volksgrenadiers armed with 2x AT rifles. Higher manpower and fuel cost since it comes with the light halftrack. This variant cannot use Panzerfaust or upgrade weapons, but has 2 weapon slots and has temporary snare ability (ie Tread Shot or Button Vehicle).
OR
The Volksgrenadiers come with 1x Panzerschreck
OR
The halftrack deploys Obersoldaten
OR
The halftrack deploys Obersoldaten and carry 1x Panzerschreck


3) HEAT Rounds: Same from Elite Armoured Doctrine

4) Valiant Assault: Same as Luftwaffe Ground Forces

5) Stuka Panzerknacker Strike: Select ability, then select target enemy vehicle: the vehicle will gain the Command Panther's Coordinated Fire debuff and its position will be strafed by a 30mm Stuka (same as CAS doctrine ability). The plane strafes once, flies fast, and can be shot down. Enemy vehicle will be marked, but can move away to avoid the strafe.

Reasoning:
-Part of hunting down enemy armour is finding them, so I came up with a sort of copy to CoH1's Panzer Elite ability of similar theme. Less of a "cheat" ability as Artillery Flares, as it relies on your infantry rather than munitions and select anywhere. For comparison, Soviets' Armoured Vehicle Detection is global, cost 60 munitions, last 30 seconds, and according to game text detected vehicles are 2x the normal sight range your closest units.
-I personally dislike the idea of making a unit dedicated AT unit, so I came up with a compromise by designing a variant (similar to UKF's Tank Hunter Infantry Section) that is armed with a different weapon. Being doctrinal unlock and the costs include a halftrack, this prevents blobbing as the cost now includes fuel, no way you can blob AT infantry now, not unless you want to never tech or get KT.
-Valiant Assault is a general assist to infantry as it improves both firepower and movement speed. But this is more of a filler idea, it can be replaced by pretty much anything that might prove better, such as Heavy Defenses that give Tank Traps.
-HEAT Rounds are to augment your vehicles' AT firepower.
-Stuka ability is a generalist off-map ability.

OP's idea isn't bad either, the PJ squad could just be Jaegers armed with AT weapons instead of G43s, and otherwise are identical in everything else, ie spawning from ambient buildings, being OKW version of Partisans. It can just be called "Jaeger Antitank Squad" and copy same voices (which I believe is itself a ripoff of Stormtroopers).

If I were to re-do the OP's idea, then I'd do it like this:

- Combine the AT Rifle and Teller Mine abilities into one, and add another thing like Heavy Defenses for Tank Traps

-Call the Panzerjaeger "Jaegers Antitank Squad" so it's clear that the unit is basically Jaegers with an AT bend.

-Artillery Flares and PaK43 is ok, but I think it's better if there are some more interesting abilities.

Maybe instead of Pak 43 Emplacement may new vehicle Panzerjäger 38 (t) Hetzer or Jagdpanther (SdKfz 173)

what is everyone's fascination with panzerbusche rifles? As a sov player, PTRS's are so shitty I wouldn't even wish them on my enemy.

Just say no to shitty useless handheld AT

Your idea looks nice, but in my opinion the use of this commander is not really needed and let you spend huge amout of resscources into AT weaponry. If Sturm preform the same with Panzerbüchse like Guards but lose all their anti inf capability it would not make me feel to upgrade them.

So over all relic would never touch this idea of your commander because it seems not so much like money milking. Maybe if a Flag 88mm is added with some nice abtilitys

Your idea looks nice, but in my opinion the use of this commander is not really needed and let you spend huge amout of resscources into AT weaponry. If Sturm preform the same with Panzerbüchse like Guards but lose all their anti inf capability it would not make me feel to upgrade them.

So over all relic would never touch this idea of your commander because it seems not so much like money milking. Maybe if a Flag 88mm is added with some nice abtilitys

Panzerbüchse 39's stats are in-between the stats of the PTRS and the Bazooka. I could possibly make it work the same way as the sweeper where they can put it away, and take it out, but if that was so, It would need a long cool-down to take it out again. One of the nice abilities that you might want is the panzerjäger's 'detection' ability. It'll be exactly the same as the stormtrooper's version (aka really good), but it'll still be locked behind the panzerschreck upgrade. I hope I'll be able to explain this more once I'm able to make a complete, in-game mod for it. If Relic were to support this project in any way, shape, or form, then I would make the Flak 88 an official part of this commander.

You still can put StuG III instead of Pak43 and I think it could be best option

Didnt relic already Said that there wouldnt be New commanders?
Besides that it would mean that relic needs to record new voice lines and models wich i dont see them doing in this stage of the game

You still can put StuG III instead of Pak43 and I think it could be best option

I actually think an AT version of the Hetzer would be a good option. They already have the voice lines, and the base model. All you'd really need is the new gun.

Didnt relic already Said that there wouldnt be New commanders?
Besides that it would mean that relic needs to record new voice lines and models wich i dont see them doing in this stage of the game

They said they wouldn't do a lot of things, but for this particular case, they said in the foreseeable future (aka what they had planned at the time), so there still is a chance. There's always a chance.

My 2 cents:

Tank Awareness
All squads now reveal enemy vehicles up to 90 meters from their position, on both the mini-map and tactical map (but not in the 3D combat view).

Riegel or Teller Mines
Grants the ability to plant Riegel/Teller Mines, which will explode with great force whenever vehicles (and only vehicles) pass over them.

Panzerjäger (Tank Buster Squad)
Tank Buster Heavy Infantry are used for flanking and destroying enemy vehicles and tanks. Due to the small squad size, they rely on other units to absorb fire for them as they get into a flanking position and unleash their warheads - otherwise they can quickly be destroyed. However, the Panzerschreck is often powerful enough to penetrate front tank armor, so in desperate situations it's always possible to attack an enemy vehicle head-on. Can ambush and gets penetration bonus.

HEAT Rounds: Same from Elite Armoured Doctrine or APCR rounds.

FlaK 88 or Jagdpanther.

I can't help but feel this would invalidate Allied Armour, who traditionally has less armour than german counterparts (who also get better penetrating weapons).

Unless there was some sort of counterbalance to this, it seems totally over the top. No Allied Commander has anything near this calibre.

My 2 cents:

Tank Awareness
All squads now reveal enemy vehicles up to 90 meters from their position, on both the mini-map and tactical map (but not in the 3D combat view).

Riegel or Teller Mines
Grants the ability to plant Riegel/Teller Mines, which will explode with great force whenever vehicles (and only vehicles) pass over them.

Panzerjäger (Tank Buster Squad)
Tank Buster Heavy Infantry are used for flanking and destroying enemy vehicles and tanks. Due to the small squad size, they rely on other units to absorb fire for them as they get into a flanking position and unleash their warheads - otherwise they can quickly be destroyed. However, the Panzerschreck is often powerful enough to penetrate front tank armor, so in desperate situations it's always possible to attack an enemy vehicle head-on. Can ambush and gets penetration bonus.

HEAT Rounds: Same from Elite Armoured Doctrine or APCR rounds.

FlaK 88 or Jagdpanther.

The detection ability is on panzerjager once upgraded with schrecks.

Teller mines already there.

Panzerjäger already there.

HEAT Rounds - I'd rather leave that as a unique ability for the Elite Armor doctrine.

Flak 88 OR AT Hetzer - If Relic would show support.

I can't help but feel this would invalidate Allied Armour, who traditionally has less armour than german counterparts (who also get better penetrating weapons).

Unless there was some sort of counterbalance to this, it seems totally over the top. No Allied Commander has anything near this calibre.

Most of these things are already in-game. Allies still survive. End of discussion.

I love the idea! Good job!

While it would be a bad idea to give Volks the PzB, it doesn't really fit on Sturmpios either. I think it's better to have them only on the dedicated AT squad, but that could come a bit earlier if you ask me, maybe at 3CP. As for the weapon's stats, maybe give it higher penetration but a lower rate of fire than the PTRS. It actually is a single-shot bolt-action rifle, while the PTRS is semi-automatic with a five-shot magazine.

How about Improved Salvage instead? That would also help with the high munitions cost for mines and Schrecks.

I prefer Riegelminen to Tellerminen. You don't see them very often, and they also fit the late-war theme better. Just give them to Sturmpios, no 251 needed.

Without significant changes, I don't see the Pak 43 being very useful. The Hetzer or even Jagdtiger would be much better, I think.

It's a nice commander idea, though!

This is why i dont support Shreck, look what its done to our community!!

Thats how relic does it, they offer you a free taste and then next thing you know your spamming threads just asking for one more hit of shreck and then when you get a minor nerf instead of removal temporarily, but when the removal happens next thing you know your so hard up for shrecks your spaming polls swearing that if you get one more hit of that heavenly shreck youll stop.....one "more adjustment you say", "one more nerf" you say....before long your looking at yourself in the mirror wondering who the hell you are anymore after selling hand jobs for one more match with shrecks.

I been down that road my friend.....your not alone you dont need that high off a shreck just to get your okw up, friends dont let friends shreck.

This is why i dont support Shreck, look what its done to our community!!

Thats how relic does it, they offer you a free taste and then next thing you know your spamming threads just asking for one more hit of shreck and then when you get a minor nerf instead of removal temporarily, but when the removal happens next thing you know your so hard up for shrecks your spaming polls swearing that if you get one more hit of that heavenly shreck youll stop.....one "more adjustment you say", "one more nerf" you say....before long your looking at yourself in the mirror wondering who the hell you are anymore after selling hand jobs for one more match with shrecks.

I been down that road my friend.....your not alone you dont need that high off a shreck just to get your okw up, friends dont let friends shreck.

It's just a commander idea m8.