Proposed changes for Soviets 4/27

In my opinion the Soviets still need a lot of work. While they are a very capable faction they are in my opinion the worst designed faction of all. Even after the major changes to the teching and the SU-76, they are still more reliant on Commander units than the other four factions. The changes below could help solve most of the problems the faction faces, in all game modes.

Demolition charges
• Should be defused once detected

IS-2
Scatter Offset buff drastically increases the tank’s performance against infantry. The reason the IS-2 armor was increased was because it was underperforming compared to the Tiger. This is no longer the case now that the tank will no longer miss its target by 500 meters.
• Reduce frontal armor from 375 to 340

T-34/85
• Move to Soviet Tier 4. The new T-34/76 changes are very good, but the T-34/76 is NOT a Tier 4 unit.
• Increase T-34/85 penetration from from 160/140/120 to 190/180/170
• Increase scatter distance max from 5.0 to 7.5 to balance out AT buff.
• Replace vet 1 ‘Capture Territory*’ ability with ‘Flanking Speed’

T-34/76
• Move to Soviet Tier 3
• Replace vet 1 ‘Capture Territory*’ ability with ‘Flanking Speed’

ISU-152
Currently the ISU-152 AP shells feel very lackluster. With an 11 second reload, it really should be capable of reliably penetrating a Tiger at max range.

• Increase AP shell penetration from 260/240/220 to 300/280/260
• Increase ‘Concrete Piercing Shell’ penetration to 1,000
• Reduce cost to 680 MP and 250 FU

KV-1
The KV-1 is currently very overpriced when compared to the Churchill. It has significantly less HP, and its gun feels much weaker as well.There really is no reason to use the KV-1 over the T-34/85 since it fails at its one job which is being a meatshield. With both tanks at 800 HP, you'll get a lot more bank for your buck getting a T-34/85 instead.

• Increase HP from 800 to 1,040
• Increase penetration from 110/100/80 to 130/110/80

KV-2
The KV-2 is underperforming for its cost, even with the buffs. 70 range is not enough for a unit that must be immobile to function properly.

• Increase range from 70 to 85
• Increase damage from 240 to 320

M3 Scout Car

• Increase armor from 5.4 to 7
• Reduce rear armor to 4.2 to 2.5

Conscripts

• Reduce cost from 240 to 220
• Reduce received accuracy from 1.087 to 1.0

Penal Battalion
• Increase moving accuracy from 0.5 to 0.8 to better align the SVT with other carbines
• Increase SVT-40 damage from 8 to 10
• Move Oorah from vet 2 to vet 1

Guards

• Reduce cost of ‘Button’ ability from 40 to 30 MU

82mm mortar
• Reduce reload time from 7.5 to 6 seconds
• Reduce ‘Flares’ from 40 to 30 MU

+ 227 to everything! But... I still beilve, that conscripts should have PTRS without doctrines. Maybe unlockable with T0 side tech, maybe unlockable with T1 building. Without them - building T1 will make USSR too vunerable to Luchses and other early vechiles. In T2 we can get ZiS at least. With PTRSs on Cons there will be more reasons for making cons+penals, instead of just spamming penals.

And T-34-76 in T3 is bad idea... Better move it in doctrines to place of T-34-85 on 6/7 CP. For those, who want to play in spam, there are such people, I know.

Most of these proposed changes are really good some nice ideas here. Too bad your name isn't miragefla.

Great ideas, some of the buffs might be over the top but logical suggestions overall.

I can agree to some of the units receiving buffs but I find a few changes a tad overbuffing.

ISU-152's price reduction seems uncalled for. The performance improvement should justify the price.

If KV-1 is to be buffed in health, I don't think the gun needs to be upped either. Just let it perform the meatshield role.

85 range for the KV-2 is over the top. It's already outranging AT guns and can shoot over shotblockers. Damage improvement is arbitrary as well. I'd say maybe a slight buff to range to 75-80 is understandable but beyond that would be too strong.

Aside from that, I think the rest are fine.

Also, what are you going to add for doctrines that have T-34/85 in their list? Any ideas on what to replace them with for compensation?

oh its coffebeans lol,nope the tanks fine as are now in the balance mod u are just making them more op..axis tanks are already overpriced shit so no

Do we seriously talk about giving buffs to the strongest faction ingame?

oh its coffebeans lol,nope the tanks fine as are now in the balance mod u are just making them more op..axis tanks are already overpriced shit so no

Axis tanks are overpriced, but they perform good for their price.

Upcoming t34-76 will be overperforming in T3 with its price

Upcoming t45-76 will be overperforming in T3 with its price

So - let's put it in doctirnes, instead of 85 for 6 or 7 CP. Will be like M10 but for soviets

KV-1 bad compared to the churchill? lol I wish, I've not seen a Anvil churchill since it got a price increase and health/armour nerf a few months back

KV-1 is doctrinal (no tech costs), cheaper, comes at 8CP and you want to buff it to churchill levels..

Do we seriously talk about giving buffs to the strongest faction ingame?

pretty much this, these changes would make USF/UKF extinct

Sovs already have the best wipe potential of any faction (Demos, T-70's, ISU/KV-2/IS-2) and all round force with everything you need (SU-85, rocket arty, team weapons and now great non doc infantry with penals). These changes together would break the game.

KV-1 is non-doc, cheaper, comes at 8CP and you want to buff it to churchill levels..

Bro, stop using weed, seriously.

You should defnie for yourself - is it "non-doc" or is it "comes at 8 CP"...

KV-1 bad compared to the churchill? lol I wish, I've not seen a Anvil churchill since it got a price increase and health/armour nerf a few months back

KV-1 is non-doc, cheaper, comes at 8CP and you want to buff it to churchill levels..



pretty much this, these changes would make USF/UKF extinct

Sovs already have the best wipe potential of any faction (Demos, T-70's, ISU/KV-2/IS-2) and all round force with everything you need (SU-85, rocket arty, team weapons and now great non doc infantry with penals). These changes together would break the game.

The ISU-152 and KV-2 are never used in 1v1 and very rare in 2v2.

The 120mm mortar was nerfed several times and doesn't wipe squads as often. It still has lower dps than the 240 MP Ostheer mortar.

T-70 does 40 damage per hit and while it is one of the best anti-infantry in the game, it's certainly not a squad-wiper unless the squad is already below half health or you get a lucky hit when they're bunched up.

The IS-2 has the worst accuracy of any tank thanks to the 0.55 scatter offset while the Tiger and most other tanks have only 0.25 so tell me again how the IS-2 is wiping squads when the Tiger is much more consistent?...

I'm not denying the Soviets have very powerful tools at their disposal, but that doesn't change the fact that they're poorly designed and use the same strats more than any faction. After 3 years it's getting very boring.

As for the KV-1, the stats are all here

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=kv-1_commander_mp

It is a pathetic tank for the cost, I can't think of a single scenario where I would rather have a KV-1 than a T-34/85. The majority of Axis AT cuts through its armor as if it's just a T-34 so in reality it is just an overpriced, oversized T-34/76. The gun stats are exactly the same.

Thanks for bringing up demo charges, though. That reminds me to add something to the OP.

Bro, stop using weed, seriously.

You should defnie for yourself - is it "non-doc" or is it "comes at 8 CP"...

Don't worry he is comp0letely uneducated about this game, yet he is the loudest one when it comes to talking about gameplay.

The ISU-152 and KV-2 is extinct in 1v1

The 120mm mortar was nerfed several times

T-70 does 40 damage per hit and while it is one of the best anti-infantry in the game, it's certainly not a squad-wiper unless the squad is already below half health or you get a lucky hit when they're bunched up.

The IS-2 has the worst accuracy of any tank thanks to the 0.55 scatter offset while the Tiger and most other tanks have only 0.25 so tell me again how the IS-2 is wiping squads when the Tiger is much more consistent?...

1: KV-2 is not extinct, industry gets decent use now it has the fuel drop and on maps lke crossing the KV-2 puts in some serious work. The only downside is lack of shocks/guards, which will not be a problem now penals are buffed...

You propose 85 range which means you could cover half the 1vs1 maps in rotation with that thing.

2: ISU is probably the most common soviet heavy in 2vs2. It's niche is AI and already wipes extremely well, if you want to buff the AT it's gonna need some serious AI nerfs to balance the unit

Of course it's less common in 1's but heavy Assault guns are, look at how common the Jagdtiger or Ele are..

3: T-70 is the best light vehicle to wipe retreating squads in the game, AEC and stuart are nowhere near.

Note how I said wipe and not "one shot"

4: IS-2 wipes consistently, usually one shot and a couple bursts of the DSHK is all it takes to decrew a pak

I'm not deny that Soviets have very powerful tools at their disposal, but that doesn't change the fact that they're poorly designed and use the same strats more than any faction.

If you want to talk poorly designed then how come soviets have the non doc units to deal with every situation? Americans still have no non-doc arty and brits are hopeless without commanders filling their design holes

Yet soviets are somehow the poorly designed ones

Axis tanks are overpriced, but they perform good for their price.

That literally makes no sense

That literally makes no sense

How is it? Panther cost a lot, agree. But it has more, than any other medium stock tank. Armor of heavy tank, main gun, which penetrates almost everything from all ranges, 3 MGs in hull and 1 on turret - bulletstorm, nice speed and accseleration...

And same goes for all other axis tanks. They are well balanced for their price. They cost a lot - they preform a lot.

1: KV-2 is not extinct, industry gets decent use now it has the fuel drop and on maps lke crossing the KV-2 puts in some serious work. The only downside is lack of shocks/guards, which will not be a problem now penals are buffed...

You propose 85 range which means you could cover half the 1vs1 maps in rotation with that thing.
-You mean like the Jagdtiger, PaK 43 and Elefant which can shut down a KV-2 without even trying?...

The KV-2 is literally the easiest unit to kill once it is in lock-down mode. Even if you click pack-up right away it will still die if it gets flanked because of the time it takes to pack up and because of how slow the tank is...Nobody complained about it when it had 100 range and 320 damage, I highly doubt anyone would complain about 85. Not to mention the shell itself takes ages to travel, giving you lots of time to move out of the way...It almost never hits anything at max range anyway.

2: ISU is probably the most common soviet heavy in 2vs2. It's niche is AI and already wipes extremely well, if you want to buff the AT it's gonna need some serious AI nerfs to balance the unit
-That's probably because the KV-1 and IS-2 are terrible heavy tanks, while the ISU can reliably wipe squads. But you're right, its AI will need some toning down if AT is buffed.

3: T-70 is the best light vehicle to wipe retreating squads in the game, AEC and stuart are nowhere near.
Note how I said wipe and not "one shot"
-Ok?...Why are we even talking about the T-70? Americans aren't exactly lacking in wiping potential either. Sherman with HE shells and the Pershing are better than both the ISU and the IS-2...You can annihilate squads with a Sherman once it gets the radio ability and faster reload + the fact that it has higher moving accuracy and less scatter than most other medium tanks.

4: IS-2 wipes consistently, usually one shot and a couple bursts of the DSHK is all it takes to decrew a pak
-And the Sherman and Pershing wipe a lot more. I think you forgot to update your game, you must still be using the IS-2 pre March Deployment.


If you want to talk poorly designed then how come soviets have the non doc units to deal with every situation? Americans still have no non-doc arty and brits are hopeless without commanders filling their design holes

Yet soviets are somehow the poorly designed ones


Every faction is lacking in something. The Soviets are just special in that their teching system makes zero sense, along with the grouping of units...It is an outdated design back from closed beta...Did you play closed beta? Soviets were a very different faction back then...

How is it? Panther cost a lot, agree. But it has more, than any other medium stock tank. Armor of heavy tank, main gun, which penetrates almost everything from all ranges, 3 MGs in hull and 1 on turret - bulletstorm, nice speed and accseleration...

And same goes for all other axis tanks. They are well balanced for their price. They cost a lot - they preform a lot.

You said they are overpriced but they perform good for their price. That is an oxymoron; contradictory. If something is overpriced it does not perform good for its price. If something performs good for its price it is not overpriced.

You said they are overpriced but they perform good for their price. That is an oxymoron; contradictory.

That could happen, because my english is not perfect. On Russian that construction would be more reasonable. Sorry for misunderstanding.

But, I hope you got my idea. You pay high pirce - you getiing high quality. Result - balanced.