Updates on BALANCE PREVIEW MOD

i really love the changes. only one that i dont really like is how they change su85 reload and gave it penetration... after already giving it penetration... leave its reload speed cause it really need it vs nitro tanks running away and flanking. IF U LOWER ITs RELOAD ADD DAMAGE!!!!! and ppl saying it got a rotation buff it got slower actually

OKW

Battlegroup Headquarters

• Medics must now be purchased as an upgrade. 100 manpower 15 Fuel.

This is an extremely biased MOD and should not make it into the live game.


SO GETTING ACCESS TO MEDICS AS OKW COSTS 400 MANPOWER AND 50 FUEL. Sounds legit

This is an extremely biased MOD and should not make it into the live game.


SO GETTING ACCESS TO MEDICS AS OKW COSTS 400 MANPOWER AND 50 FUEL. Sounds legit

You sound like someone who's used to getting free nades, free healing, free AT weapons, free AA, etc.

Kinda sucks having to pay for those things like every other faction, eh?

Oh yeah you forgot the captain and LT. Who can A-Move into anything? Removing the zooka is not that much of a nerf anyway since it is a buff to their AI.


I would love to get free obers and Falls as a reward for teching! And free heavy arty! (brits)

"Some of these changes may seem a bit radical but what better time to try radical ideas than during a Balance Preview Mod. Players should not expect all these changes to make it into the Patch as it is or for all the changes to make it into the Patch. " - Thats why it's called a preview

This is an extremely biased MOD and should not make it into the live game.


SO GETTING ACCESS TO MEDICS AS OKW COSTS 400 MANPOWER AND 50 FUEL. Sounds legit

Indeed. If this retarded patch does make it, it will be the patch that kills OKW. Or rather, the one that finishes it off, because of the numerous gardenings it has had over the last months.

You sound like someone who's used to getting free nades, free healing, free AT weapons, free AA, etc.

Kinda sucks having to pay for those things like every other faction, eh?

Please enlighten me by showing me another faction who pays 400mp and 55 fuel to get medics after they skip a tier?

Please enlighten me by showing me another faction who pays 400mp and 55 fuel to get medics after they skip a tier?

it's not just the medic for 400 mp 55 fuel, you're also getting the production building itself.

check my signature. Even with the added medic upgrade, the OKW still have one of the lowest mp cost of the entire game.

This is an extremely biased MOD and should not make it into the live game.


SO GETTING ACCESS TO MEDICS AS OKW COSTS 400 MANPOWER AND 50 FUEL. Sounds legit

Getting access to medics + that tier, yes.

Sturms still have their health-packs (which are cumbersome but atleast it's something) and we keep the cost-effectiveness of a Volks Squad. Due to the nature of getting these little guys to vet1/2 I'd argue that they could use the medical supply ability at vet 0 and then have it get cheaper at vet1.

For those of you who haven't played the mod yet go ahead and try it. Throw an upped Volks squad against cons, riflemen and Tommies in a controlled situation and see how well you do.

Vs Cons you're going to win more at pretty well all ranges but long

Vs Riflemen you're going to trade very, very cost effectively as they approach (Assuming you aren't running your troops at them like some sort of madman)

Vs Tommies you can actually win close up, you get to take 3 models worth of casualties before your "main" dps takes a hit. Green to green at mid is still going to go to the Tommies though.


With the new staying/hitting/trading power of the volks it makes sense to have their healing be slightly more expensive than their Allied counterparts. It could be subject to tweaking but I think it's a valid start.

Pio sandbags

That's pretty dumb then, they should be encouraging using the weapon racks or AT gun, not just delaying Captain schrecks slightly. That was always the problem with the way people played USF and relying on the captain exclusively for AT. They're just going to spend the 80 munitions the second he spawns and this changes nothing. Might be fun to give him BARS now instead of bazookas though.

It is not a redesign, it's a soft nerf to the USF's early game by forcing the player to spend additional resources. 80 munition is a decent amount in the early game.

YAY to .50 actually being MORE useful and behaving more like a .50 cal! And gives the LT tier some light AT.

Hmm. I'm definitely going to have to test these changes before I come to a conclusion. Seems like it could be interesting. I appreciate that Relic isn't doing their usual "BUFF EVERYTHING ABOUT IT BY TRIPLE!" approach.


Not sure how necessary this is. Part of the fun of using tank destroyers is the challenge of trying to provide sight for them so they can utilize their long range.


But the free bazookas are all the captain is good for besides On Me!. What differentiates him from a lieutenant now? I don't see how this adds anything to the game. Does this at least mean I can give him BARs now if I want to? Because that would actually be nice.

...

Seeing how both Axis have cloaked units that easily provide LOS for their long range units, this is appropriate IMO for the Jackson, when USF has no cloaked units to help provide sight for it.

And I agree, what good is the Captain now other than a tier unlock? At least the LT provides BAR support with it. Captain was good, early AT without having to buy AT. It'd make a fast Luchs or 222 think twice. Now USF has to invest more muni/fuel & MP for an earlier AT. Be curious how this plays out, if the .50 can supplement the AT role or the 80 'zook has an impact.

Its already pretty weak, if I remember right the has a lower LOS compared to panther.
While I get the idea the Jackson should be a glass cannon, the low HP, armor, and poor pathfinding, makes using the Jackson very hard to use. Increase the LOS gives you slightly more time to react oncoming threats and potential path finding issues (such as pop in tank traps)

This.

Captain still has his management certificate ability (don't remember the exact name), really useful to pump out units really fast.
Now you can go 3RM/BARs+Zooks/captain + fast stuart/pak/Atgun and equip BARs on your captain if you don't see any light/medium vehicle.
Let's be honest that´s a nerf for sure but with HMG.50 getting better softcounter to lights and mortar to take out position, you´ll less need dual zooks to do the early heavy damage stuff RMs+BARs can´t do.
Mortar alone open a wide area of possibility to counter aggressive OKW H.Qs

I like USF and those changes are nice, at least on paper.

What I can't get is why OKW fanboys are still crying while getting what they were asking for.

Good point on the CPT.

*GASP!*

You mean like you'll have to actually put down mines and maybe actually consider what opponent does and go for Puma, just like ost goes for 222, USF for stuart, UKF for AEC and sov for SU-76/T-70 to deal with early vehicle from opponent instead of spamming most op handheld AT weapon on most basic infantry that doesn't even require any side costs!?

SUCH INJUSTICE!

LMAO

So yeah basically, OKW will be the only faction without handheld AT. I fail to see how your point adresses that issue. It went from having no non doctrinal suppression to no infantry AT at all. Fail design at its best.

Volks still have faust. Egad, OKW will have to micro them now, vs attack move for AT.

it's not just the medic for 400 mp 55 fuel, you're also getting the production building itself.

check my signature. Even with the added medic upgrade, the OKW still have one of the lowest mp cost of the entire game.

Dude this game doesn't work like that. People skip tiers. It's not all linear and simplistic like your spreadsheets. In some strategies tier 1 has nothing in it worth the cost of building battlegroup hq. And without any decent AT now, tier 1 will be skipped A LOT.

Imagine walking into a shop to buy a loaf ofbread. But they don't sell single loaves only packs of 6.
-"Excuse me, how can I get a single loaf?"
-"I'm sorry you can only buy 6"
-"So, you mean to get my bread I have to pay 6 times what I needed?"
-"Yes, but think you are also getting 5 extra loaves"
-"Great... really don't need them. Thanks."

It is not a redesign, it's a soft nerf to the USF's early game by forcing the player to spend additional resources. 80 munition is a decent amount in the early game.

Firesparks: "It's fine for USF to get free sh1t with teching... but lets make sure OKW pay for all abilities. Me? Biased? Never."

Also, how much does the Major FRP cost? Sorry, say that again? Nothing?

Vs Cons you're going to win more at pretty well all ranges but long

Vs Riflemen you're going to trade very, very cost effectively as they approach (Assuming you aren't running your troops at them like some sort of madman)

Vs Tommies you can actually win close up, you get to take 3 models worth of casualties before your "main" dps takes a hit. Green to green at mid is still going to go to the Tommies though.

See, that's sort of the thing with that upgrade. Volks become, alone, capable of fighting every basic infantry the allies have. Volks having 3 automatic weapons reduces Shock Trooper's effectiveness as well, especially considering MG34s will be stock. And besides Volks already, especially with vet, hold their own quite well without any AI upgrades as it is.

If Volks aren't going to have Panzerschrecks (which they really shouldn't've), they should just have their basic rifles. If they're going to get an assault gun package it should be MP40s for all of them. Sure it'd make them clones of vCoH, but there's only so many German WW2 weapons to select from. And besides, it was a good design.

StGs are way too strong for all of five volks and splitting the squad up is extremely inelegant. The currently proposed method makes the upgrade either a no-brainer or a waste of munis, instead of a solid strategic choice. It's just not conducive to balance.

And this is all not even considering Sturmpioneers already have a set of StGs.

MORTAR FOR USF

I REALLY like some of these changes such as the SU-85 change which is sorely needed.

I think the Raketen needs to be buffed a bit or perhaps Jagdpanzer moved back in to battlegroup HQ as it was before.
But please never give the panzerschreck back to the Volks.

StGs are way too strong for all of five volks and splitting the squad up is extremely inelegant. The currently proposed method makes the upgrade either a no-brainer or a waste of munis, instead of a solid strategic choice. It's just not conducive to balance.

And this is all not even considering Sturmpioneers already have a set of StGs.

I think anyone with half a brain can see that Stg44 on 2 volks is a dreadful idea. I agree, they need an upgrade which is inline with their role, not to become sturm lights.

My conclusion on these notes: I really want to try this preview mod exactly as it's planned. So please Relic don't change anything more before the 27th. I'm quite confident as it is that it will demonstrate the stupidity of many community members with loud voices. If not then I'm wrong and that's fine. Problem is, even if an issue is glaringly obvious you cannot trust this dev to acknowledge it and fix it. But all the same, bring it on.

My conclusion on these notes: I really want to try this preview mod exactly as it's planned. So please Relic don't change anything more before the 27th. I'm quite confident as it is that it will demonstrate the stupidity of many community members with loud voices. If not then I'm wrong and that's fine. Problem is, even if an issue is glaringly obvious you cannot trust this dev to acknowledge it and fix it. But all the same, bring it on.

+1 million. Relic took a risk in trying this approach. I hope it works.

Firesparks: "It's fine for USF to get free sh1t with teching... but lets make sure OKW pay for all abilities. Me? Biased? Never."

Also, how much does the Major FRP cost? Sorry, say that again? Nothing?

this is a move away from free stuff. Instead of getting bazooka free with captain, the USF now have to spend 80 additional munition to get bazooka. It is still a nerf to the USF.