Updates on BALANCE PREVIEW MOD

Rip mines, rip okw. #dedgaem

The changes to the Captain and the Jackson seem pretty arbitrary and changes for changes' sake.

The vet 3 for the SU-85 seems unnecessary with the improvements to its penetration, not to mention it is going to reload slower. With its potential damage output throttled it will at least have less bounced shots.

Some good changes but some really ridiculous ones too. SU-85 didn't need to be adjusted that much, accuracy and some pen is nice but the vehicle is gonna be completely different and perhaps too strong.

I would have preferred the usf mortar to be switched with the 50cal on liut since the 50 cal arrives quite late already and captain has the pack howitzer, meaning you have an option for indirect fire if you choose either of these tiers. Putting the 50 cal in hq will also provide more viable build orders for the early game rather than rifle rifle rifle etc. The large penetration might be an issue for kubels though.

Removing the zooks from captain but not the bar from liut? Seeems odd either change both or keep both since you go captain because you might need soft AT and liut for extra anti-inf. Nerfing the captain seems unnecessary since zooks aren't good vs inf anymore in this mod, its only 80 munis but still.

Flamer halftrack could be scary, otherwise decent changes.

Personally I find the jackson somewhat needs it, since it has the lowest HP of all the TDs of it's class, firefly has the higher damage slightly,higher health pool and tulips, SU85 has self spotting but doesn't have a turret, apart from the higher rof the jackson has over the firefly(which is getting a rof buff) it doesn't offer much over the firefly apart from more mobility, but that's just my opinion.

Good points. I can agree with that.

You can put duel bars on the Captain if you wish. Yes you still have to buy the zooks for 80 muni (still cheaper then dual zooks from the weapon rack) but whatever this is better or not can be argued, LT probably be the better unit since it uses Rifles as the models while the Captain uses REs

The change just struck me as odd because it's seems so arbitrary and out of nowhere. When have bazookas on the captain been a balance problem? Up until this point, his anti-tank role has been the entire purpose of the unit. It's like back when shock troops used to have a PPSh upgrade, but Relic removed it and just increased the manpower cost because shock troops without PPSh's were basically just conscripts role-wise. I realize that it's not a one-to-one comparison because BARs and Bazookas can be equipped on anything and PPSh's can't, but still.

I'm not necessarily complaining about the change. I'm just wondering why the hell it's being made. Seems to me like it'll just make the captain have less of an intrinsic role.

You are full of praise for sideteching costs for OKW tech structures, yet you want the free double zooks for the captain when USF tech up.
What good is the battlegroup building without retreat or medics? At least the captain is an elite squad that can contribute to the war effort without any upgrades.

Apples and oranges, dude. See above. Don't try to be snarky thinking you pointed out some massive contradiction. The reason I'm fine with healing and medic upgrades (I could take or leave repairs being an updgrade) is because of how much of a game changer they are, in team games particularly.

Though I would like to clarify that I think medics should just come with the retreat point upgrade, then (maybe) increase the cost of that singular upgrade. Repair truck probably doesn't need a fuel cost just for repair units; I think a manpower-only upgrade would suffice.

The change just struck me as odd because it's seems so arbitrary and out of nowhere. When have bazookas on the captain been a balance problem? Up until this point, his anti-tank role has been the entire purpose of the unit. It's like back when shock troops used to have a PPSh upgrade, but Relic removed it and just increased the manpower cost because shock troops without PPSh's were basically just conscripts role-wise. I realize that it's not a one-to-one comparison because BARs and Bazookas can be equipped on anything and PPSh's can't, but still.

(Deleted)

You know what really helps? Learning how to read:
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/241299/april-27th-balance-preview-mod-release-notes#latest

:"Panzerfaust ability added which is unlocked after a truck is built. (Panzerfaust works just like the Grenadier Panzerfaust)"

I said the Volks faust is going to be only like Gren one, and not some super faust like mirageflas one... then you insult me and quote the EXACT thing I just said. Learn to read yourself.

Look, I don't like all of the changes myself, but can we not attack community members? Sure, it may seem like it's Miragefla's fault for all of these changes, but he only suggested them, relic was the one who chose which changes to implement. Now, I'm not suggesting attacking relic either, but instead just to focus on the ideas you don't like instead of the person who created them. I don't know, it just seems like the game could be a lot better if people focused more on what's broken instead of who broke it.

Look, I don't like all of the changes myself, but can we not attack community members? Sure, it may seem like it's Miragefla's fault for all of these changes, but he only suggested them, relic was the one who chose which changes to implement. Now, I'm not suggesting attacking relic either, but instead just to focus on the ideas you don't like instead of the person who created them. I don't know, it just seems like the game could be a lot better if people focused more on what's broken instead of who broke it.

Well, time to take this like a man and type "(Deleted)" on my posts before I get the ol' defamation of members or something like that. Well, now that I guess it's Relic's fault...

anyone who is not even top200 1v1 should not bother posting tbh

Im top 200 with brits now, and this fac is not so good. Worst one most likely

This is disgrace for them when 2v4 heroes or users without playcard spread their shit. Its like some janitor will be teaching his boss how to run busines

OKW = dead faction. It's pretty much an inferior version of Wehr with worse doctrines, worse AT gun and no panzerschreks. Just making it more braindead for allies with less options available for Axis. Allies are getting more diverse (USF mortar, penals viable) but Axis are getting nerfed into one faction.

Lelic

Mortar for USF!
PPSHs for Penals!
Sandbags for Wher!
Faust for OKW!


Snare for Brits? Awww. . .

I said the Volks faust is going to be only like Gren one, and not some super faust like mirageflas one... then you insult me and quote the EXACT thing I just said. Learn to read yourself.

'Cough' :

My thoughts exactly.

Volks faust just like Gren one, that has no snare.

Your words.



In terms of the actual patch notes, I feel like the penals may be a bit too cost efficient with these changes, ditto for the T34/76. However, for penals, this can be offset by the lower map control due to the longer build time and need to tech for them, so I suppose that we will see. I also think that a panzerjaeger squad for OKW would not be amiss, to supplement their current AT options. 4-men with 2 schrecks like pgrens would probably be the best.

Captain loss of free Bazookas probably because USF now has more soft counters to light armor, right? .50 cal w/ actual penetration and AP rounds, buffed 57 MM, and for later in the game, even the Jackson will be more survivable with better LOS.

I mean bottom line the Captain is going to be a shit unit without zooks because of squishy REs and only two Rifles w/ Rifles. Probably makes sense just to make sure you have 80 munitions ready to pop when the Captain hits the field.

I think that's a fair trade-off given the other buffs to USF AT.

Your words.

On the twitch stream they said it doesn't snare. Not my words.

Look, I don't like all of the changes myself, but can we not attack community members? Sure, it may seem like it's Miragefla's fault for all of these changes, but he only suggested them, relic was the one who chose which changes to implement. Now, I'm not suggesting attacking relic either, but instead just to focus on the ideas you don't like instead of the person who created them. I don't know, it just seems like the game could be a lot better if people focused more on what's broken instead of who broke it.

What's the point of offering feedback and discussion when they're predominately listening to a couple of specific community members?

My opinion doesn't matter to Relic. Miragefla and players like Dusty who contribute to his mod does, which is why the thing is copied almost wholesale.

Most people seem to like it, so maybe it's the right move. I won't be playing the game anymore though.. I'm tired of Relic compromising on faction design and asymmetrical gameplay. USF didn't need a mortar, and giving them one has consequences. (grenade upgrade even less important, free smoke ability whereas usually USF has to pay munitions, gives USF a hard counter to all their early game weaknesses in general) OKW is in shambles ever since last October.

You know what'd be great? If instead of raising the fuel cost on everything OKW does if they just brought back old OKW and made small adjustments? The reason OKW was so unpopular before is because people didn't get how they worked. Mechanized had resource conversion because in order to pay for light vehicles you needed it. BHQ was all about supporting mass elite infantry and using jagdpanzer, volks and raketen as AT. Flak command was about giving you game finishing heavy tanks to complement mechanized, or obersoldaten/luchs for a mid game shock unit to complement BHQ.

But that didn't fit into the 4 infantry + light tank rush + medium tank spam metagame, so they loss the sturmtiger for PzIV and then we got the big OKW rework in October and now this shit. Now we get 4 volks + luchs + panzer IV metagame and all is well!

Captain loss of free Bazookas probably because USF now has more soft counters to light armor, right? .50 cal w/ actual penetration and AP rounds, buffed 57 MM, and for later in the game, even the Jackson will be more survivable with better LOS.

I mean bottom line the Captain is going to be a shit unit without zooks because of squishy REs and only two Rifles w/ Rifles. Probably makes sense just to make sure you have 80 munitions ready to pop when the Captain hits the field.

A smarter change would have been to have the captain start with only one bazooka and he'd have to buy the other one.

The only problem I can see with removing the Captain's free zooks is them not just removing the officers arriving for free too.

What is the point of even having the Captain without zooks? With only 2 rifles he isn't a good combat unit and "On Me!" simply isn't strong enough to justify the Captain over another rifle squad. If I had the choice I'd rather pay 100 muni to put two zooks on a rifle squad that can AT snare at vet1 and smoke/nade with a global upgrade than 80 muni on a Captain that can use "On Me!". Better solutions might be to have the captain come with 1 free zook but no extra zook upgrade similar to how the LT arrives with a BAR or to have the Captain arrive with a full compliment of rifles instead of RE so he is at least combat relevant.

What is the point of even having the Captain without zooks? With only 2 rifles he isn't a good combat unit and "On Me!" simply isn't strong enough to justify the Captain over another rifle squad. If I had the choice I'd rather pay 100 muni to put two zooks on a rifle squad that can AT snare at vet1 and smoke/nade with a global upgrade than 80 muni on a Captain that can use "On Me!". Better solutions might be to have the captain come with 1 free zook but no extra zook upgrade similar to how the LT arrives with a BAR or to have the Captain arrive with a full compliment of rifles instead of RE so he is at least combat relevant.

A smarter change would have been to have the captain start with only one bazooka and he'd have to buy the other one.

presumably the captain can buy the bazooka without needing to buy the weapon rack upgrade. 80 munitions for two bazooka is also more cost effective than the usual 50 mu/zooks.

This allow the USF to partially bypass the weapon rack cost but not the munition cost.

wtf at those side tech costs you already pay for trucks thats enough and the actual tier costs are also high ..???? do usf have any penalty for free repair crew with each tank or soviets have extra durable team weapons and can act as arty peice then why the fuck okw gets screwed over.?? they dont eve nget caches mortar or sniper for fuck sake and every units is overpriced and get those 5 vet are just showpiece either you dont reach even vet 3 or the vet 5 units just get destoryed by allied vet 3 units......SO WHY THE FUCK IS OKW = much worse ostheer...???

What is the point of even having the Captain without zooks? With only 2 rifles he isn't a good combat unit and "On Me!" simply isn't strong enough to justify the Captain over another rifle squad. If I had the choice I'd rather pay 100 muni to put two zooks on a rifle squad that can AT snare at vet1 and smoke/nade with a global upgrade than 80 muni on a Captain that can use "On Me!". Better solutions might be to have the captain come with 1 free zook but no extra zook upgrade similar to how the LT arrives with a BAR or to have the Captain arrive with a full compliment of rifles instead of RE so he is at least combat relevant.

still has the thompson +4 rifles, so thats not too shabby.

and he can become a makeshift ranger later; 1 zook 1 thompon and a bar