Call of USSR: Modern Warfare

That topic suppoused to be more discussive, just interesting to hear your opinion about one of soviet "problems":

In CoH 2 we fight somewhere in 1944-1945, if I understand right. And we can see it, if we look at vechicles and weapons of all factions... except USSR.

That's really strange, that for to fight against modern Panthers, Pz.4 Ausf. J and ubermodern King Tigers USSR must use... T-34-76 tanks from 1941. Or SU-76/85 from 1942-43. KV series tanks are even more older - 1939-40!!!

And same we see with infantry weapons. While half of axis infantry equiped or can be equiped with veeery cool and modern STG-44s (and even with IR-scopes!!!!!!), USSR have to use without any alternative old Mosin rifles (with pretty shitty stats in game), pretty old PPSH-41s, Maxims from WWI... And even such old and massive produced weapon as PPSH is able only with doctrines...

So, I wondering - why USSR designed to fight with arsenal from 1941-43, when it is 44-45 already?

Of course, same Axis also using pretty old Mauser rifles, MP-40s or Luchs tanks. But, main part of their arsenal (mostly armour) is not that old - mostly all TOP-line tanks and guns. Same goes for UK with Comets, modernised Churchills... but with old Brens and Enfields. USF is also equiped with pretty best of their arsenal in guns and tanks, M1 Garand is cool, M36 just tearing tanks apart, Pershing - Tiger Ace without armor...

I don't understand, why Relic couldn't give to USSR more powerfull, modern and cool units and guns?

List of what they could add:

1. PPS-42/43 SMG. Could be used as upgrade for some infantry units. For example - Guards. Either 2 DP-28 for long-range combat or PPS-42/43 pack for close combat. That was pretty massive produced, cheap and admited by some expert as "Best SMG of WWII". USSR really desrevs it!

2. SVT-40s. OK, they are already in game but in hands of dirty criminals. I guess, there should be kinda upgrade, which changes shitty Mosins of Concsripts to those SVT-40s.

3. AVS-36. That one is pretty old, and still not inqluded in game. And it wasn't "prototype". 50k of those rifles were produced. So, they could be used as Soviet analog of STG-44s. (Idea from Red Orchestra, not that bad I guess.)

4. DS-39 HMG. You want normal deffensive HMG for USSR, instead of that old "offencive" shit Maxim? DS-39 at your service! Can be use as basic HMG, and for offensive purpouses USSR still can use DShKs.
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5. SU-100 Tank destroyer. A lot of people wrote here about that tank. Reeeealy needed, cos 76 and 85 are cool, but when OKW getting KT or JT... you need something reaaaly powerfull. And something, with better accuracy than 76/85 have...

6. IS-3 Heavy Assault Tank. OK, ok, it came too late in war - 29th March 1945... so what? It also meet some battles and worked good! I guess it could be Soviet version of King Tiger - a lot of HP, armor and anti-everything gun.

7. T-34-85/KV-85. We have T-34-85 in doctrines, but I guess, it would be more reasonable to make it non-doctrinal and put in T-4, instead of old and useless T-34-76. And instead of T-34-85 and pretty old KV-1 put KV-85 tank - combination of T-34-85 power and KV-1 armor. Would be pretty usefull as breakthrough tank.

8. And of course, BA-64/BA-10 Scout car. Instead of that useless M3 Scout truck. Those cars would make T1 waaaaaay more usefull and attractive for USSR players.

So, what do you think about that kind of "modernisation" for USSR?

I don't understand, why Relic couldn't give to USSR more powerfull, modern and cool units and guns?

Because of propaganda. Have you not played soviet campaign yet?

I agree with 1,2,5 and halfly with 7.
IS-3 didn't get in action. IS-2 fit here perfectly as counterpart for King Tiger.
KV-85 based on KV-1S (S for Skorohodniy (Скороходный)) His armor was lower, than on KV-1. And Number of bulid KV-85 is near by 150. In comparison with other USSR heavy tanks it's too small number (2800 for KV-1, 3500 for IS-2. Even KV-2 - 200 (and this is real unique tank)).
AVS-36 in comparison with SVT-40 is also very rare (65.000 and 1.6 million).
PPS in game will have no difference with PPSh.But i agree with you, that PPSh shouldn't be locked by doctrines.
DS-39 - 10.000 produces - too rare for mainline HMG.
T-34-85 - agree, but in that way, USA should get their 76mm Sherman as non-doc (not E8, but M4A3(76)W)

It is a game it has its own design. Design is Ok.
Just there is no late game infantry or scale it for late game.

Secondly, As Luvnest says : "I don't want to stuck with T34-76"
So the answer, is need to do something with it. Thats it.

I always say it, they need to make a 2nd soviet faction that fulfills the dreams of very proud russians and sell it. It would be just like what OKW is to Ostheer.

• It could have a real HMG with a tripod (e.g. DS-39 HMG which looks like DShK on tripod).
  
• It could have mainline infantry (named Strelky or whatever) without the being-trashy theme of conscripts. (with much desired non-doctrinal PPsH upgrade)
  
• It could have T34/85s (maybe with iconic red flags on top to differentiate them form the one's already in game and in order to appeal to patriotic/proud customers)
  
• To re-add the famous soviet sniper thing again in a 2nd faction, I could imagine a sniper weapon team as a unique idea. With setup time and facing direction + narrow arc of fire.
  
• It could have the BA-64 and other soviet-styled vehicles; and they could all have a red star on them to increase the atmospheric impact and make them even more soviet-nostalgia-like
  
• Some of their troops could have 3d models with helmets that have these red stars on them, too (like the tank hunter doctrine dude).
  
• Instead of a mortar, they could have some sort of a light infantry gun; just like OKW has one as oppossed to the Ostheer mortar.
  
• I could imagine a unique trench system for such a faction to bring the iconic trench imagry many have in their heads regarding stalingrad and the eastern front into the game
  
• Could have actual combat engineers with body armor like Shock Troops, as it was historically (?); could name them Shock Engineers in game, for example.
  

Quinn Duffy, do it! Make "Soviet OKW" a thing! The soviets and the germans did the most fighting in ww2. So, just as with the germans, I see potential for 2 armies with the soviets.

It is a game it has its own design. Design is Ok.
Just there is no late game infantry or scale it for late game.

Secondly, As Luvnest says : "I don't want to stuck with T34-76"
So the answer, is need to do something with it. Thats it.

Well, some of those things could make soviet late more efficient.

Why don't you understand back when the game was released it was to present the entire eastern front fight and after WFA it has changed without touching of old factions

Why don't you understand back when the game was released it was to present the entire eastern front fight and after WFA it has changed without touching of old factions

Well, but even easter factions are not "time-balanced". Ostheers still have Panthers, still have STGs against T-34-76s and Mosins.

Didn't you say you were going to make an Axis thread next, like 4 threads ago?

i approve USSR needs desperatly buffs to 1/2 of their core army

Didn't you say you were going to make an Axis thread next, like 4 threads ago?

2 threads ago, and I didn't find something that speificly bad in axis, which really deserves thread or weren't discussed already. Everyone discussed about "Sturmtiger sux", "2cm Flak Emplacement is trash", "MP-40 SMG is worst SMG in game - why!?"... Only thing which I really want for axis right now is Hummels for OKW instead of Flamenhetzer - I already suggested it.

But... maybe later, while I play as Axis I will find something, but now I like axis factions as they are. Only need something "counter-arty" for OKW, cos im fkin tired of unstopable barrages on my HQ from everything!

Because of propaganda. Have you not played soviet campaign yet?

The same one where they frequently got 34-85s, ISUs, IS-2s in their base buildings and sometimes a combination of them? And usually Shocks or Guards there too (and once, both of them)? If the Soviet players got units in their base buildings like they did at the end of the campaign, they'd cry themselves dead in joy.

The real problem with the Soviet units' portrayal in it was the absence of the DShK and keeping Order 227 throughout the war (which admittedly was pretty bad, and stranger still the website included an image mentioning Order 227 lasted three months so that would imply they knew the history and kept it in regardless).

Im not into making another SU faction but some new commanders for OST and SU with some late-war new units would be great...

Just sayin' Relic.... $ $ $ $ $ $ $

Im not into making another SU faction but some new commanders for OST and SU with some late-war new units would be great...

Just sayin' Relic.... $ $ $ $ $ $ $

*Relic red that post*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeXatquVqAc

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PPS in game will have no difference with PPSh.But i agree with you, that PPSh shouldn't be locked by doctrines.

will be: due to lower rate and better accuracy PPS will be better at medium ranges

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I agree, for the second Soviet faction has all:
scout car: BA-64
Light Tank: T-60 (scout, anti-infantry), T-80 (tank commander, Artillery spotter)
Tanks: T-34-57 (model 43), T-34-85 (add a smoke bomb, piercing projectiles), IS-1, KV-85, ISU-122, SU-122, SU-100
Artillery: M-30, D-1, BM-31-12, ZIS-2, 76 mm regimental gun M1927/M1943, 160-mm mortar model 1943, 85-mm anti-aircraft gun (52-K), 25-mm automatic anti-aircraft gun (72-K), 37-mm automatic anti-aircraft gun 1939 (61-K), 100 mm field gun BS-3
Infantry: regular infantry, paratroopers, marines, scouts

Russians love using old. ass. equipment. Even nowadays.

Yes, i am with it, we need 2 soviet faction with 1944-1945 weapones, somthing like OKW but with +300income 4Head.

Russians love using old. ass. equipment. Even nowadays.

We love to use things, which do their job. It is like use pencil in space instead of hi-tech pen with brandnew spaceink.

I hardly imagine a 4th allies faction when axis have 2. And on topic: SU and OH are representation of 1941-1943 armies. Obviously there are some anachronisms, but it is mostly accurate. My main concerns about historic accuracy is more related to Ostwinds being stock units of OH (that's the first that pops in my head, i'm sure there are more to find).

Alright, so originally I wrote a massive wall of text, doing paragraph breakdowns, etc. but I think I can just make it much simpler:

Units are just skins for numbers. The skins could be anything, the numbers are what make the game work. Ideally, you want the skin to match the role as best as possible, but sometimes it's a bit off. Sometimes two units can have massively different skins, but their stats are very similar. Other times the skins are identical, but the stats are different.

Basically, instead of looking at what skins are in the game, look at the stats behind it. You could change all the soviet units to shoot lasers and have hover tanks, but the stats would be exactly the same: there would be no difference.

The only case to ask for new units is when a ROLE is missing - not a skin. For example, look at OKW (lets ignore their spam meta right now): They have no non-doc suppression unit. Suppression is a core mechanic, and without going into a (arguably terrible) doctrine, they have no access to this core mechanic. This is a situation where asking for a new unit (non-doc HMG) makes sense.

Simply asking for a new unit just because it's missing doesn't add to the game.