Comments on the July 10 Patch Notes!

The problem with forums sometimes is that even my Grandmother could sign up and she could post her poorly thought out opinion on video games, just like you.

Give the patch a chance and play around with it. Give the devs some time to address the balance, it is not as simple as 1 2 3... ffs.

My first rts was Dune 2 so im like your granfather i think ;P
Sorry but when i see unit nerfs and in same time buffs to it counters (maxim - mortars)
Nerf to stationery killers (mortars) where germans have bunkers, MG and there are problems with houses. Im little sceptic about balance changes. I will wait for real patch opponions but there is very big chance that this patch was overdone...
BTW i never used maxim spam and used M3 + sniper only once.

My first rts was Dune 2 so im like your granfather i think ;P
Sorry but when i see unit nerfs and in same time buffs to it counters (maxim - mortars)
Nerf to stationery killers (mortars) where germans have bunkers, MG and there are problems with houses. Im little sceptic about balance changes. I will wait for real patch opponions but there is very big chance that this patch was overdone...
BTW i never used maxim spam and used M3 + sniper only once.

Hehe, sorry my comment was just a little bit harsh. And you might be my grandfather oO. I just mostly lurk nowadays and when I see the complaining before playing the patches I get a bit irritated. But yea, I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think nerfing one side to buff the other give the teeter-totter effect too easily. I think I would have preferred to see more "game changes" like real mines for the germans, tier units mixed around / cost more, or possibly some changes in the fuel / munitions costs or how they're acquired. But hey, I'm no programmer or balance expert, just my opinion.

My first rts was Dune 2 so im like your granfather i think ;P
Sorry but when i see unit nerfs and in same time buffs to it counters (maxim - mortars)
Nerf to stationery killers (mortars) where germans have bunkers, MG and there are problems with houses. Im little sceptic about balance changes. I will wait for real patch opponions but there is very big chance that this patch was overdone...
BTW i never used maxim spam and used M3 + sniper only once.

Still got extreme bullshit T70 and SU85

Even you play from Dune 2, doesn't mean you are good

Still got extreme bullshit T70 and SU85

Even you play from Dune 2, doesn't mean you are good

Are you the youngest member of your family ?

Are you the youngest member of your family ?

No, and I actually play RTS from Dune 2 at 5, start playing them seriously from StarCraft one

First off this patch is pathetic really!

It does help a little bit with the annoying truck combos but still if your half decent and dont get 1 shot you will bail out to reduce the risk of losing men!

Secondly when using snipers in trucks you should always be at full range anyways so this has no effect on them, they will miss more but stil be really good AI.

The guy who said russians dont use mortars is a complete idiot tbh, ofc they use mortars they are OP to fuck!!! Im so happy with this nerf finally grens should last a bit longer now. Still i bet when they do hit they gibb full squads as always :\

The german fixes are indeed welcome, still maxims will rape them due to no suppression slow down, when the hell is this gonna be fixed? I mean maxims can setup infront of any unit and rape them even when down to 3 men they still very deadly!

Someone mentioned the gren nade become retarded, it is indeed retarded, it is so slow if u try use it and take heavy fire then move u lose ammo aswell as half the 4 man squad!

Cons beating grens is also dumb and needs fixed! HTD is op, ive seen cons run up to my mgs and htd and kill the mg even though suppressed :\

One last thing to add if the devs cant write patch notes properly wtf chance does the game have? REALLY RELIC!? The game has already been released with no fixes from open BETA and you give us early buyers this tiny patch and a few commanders?

Relic has gone so much downhill since HW2, DOW1 and COH 1 its pretty much NOT the relic we use to be excited about.

FIX YOUR SHIT FFS!

PS. Still no skill ranked, there is no point in winning or losing as its not even calculated, the team balance is also pathetic sometimes i get allies who are rank 10 and have no idea. Mind u ive seen some ranked 97 with no idea but 9/10 higher rank should dictate better skill.

SO when will this be added?

I would agree that German weapon teams do not need the extra man, and that I would rather see Soviet teams decreased in size, or small arms buffed across the board.

Furthermore, with a general nerf to the Maxim, I am not sure what distinguishes it from the MG42, apart from that it has far worse suppression and a much smaller arc of fire. I feel that set up time, and the ability to act as normal while pinned should have been lowered/changed respectively, dps was not the issue (How will t2 deal with P Grens with lower maxim dps and slower mortar fire?)

I would agree that German weapon teams do not need the extra man, and that I would rather see Soviet teams decreased in size, or small arms buffed across the board.

Furthermore, with a general nerf to the Maxim, I am not sure what distinguishes it from the MG42, apart from that it has far worse suppression and a much smaller arc of fire. I feel that set up time, and the ability to act as normal while pinned should have been lowered/changed respectively, dps was not the issue (How will t2 deal with P Grens with lower maxim dps and slower mortar fire?)

Gaurds and shock troops? German t2 is pathetic also maxim will still be op :\

So, any idea when this patch is going live?

One question about the Mortars:
The 81mm Mortar firing rate got pretty buffed (4.5 sec to 2.4 secc), but the 81mm Mortar Halftrack stays at 4.0 sec?

Just wondering cause though the abilities on the Mortar Halftrack are quite good it still costs 40 fuel and hits the field much later. So it's passive firing would still be underwhelming even more compared to the newly buffed Mortar team weapon.

Regards
ace

You guys really just won't be happy until every decent soviet unit has been made useless. The maxim never needed a nerf for the following reasons:

The maxim has terrible suppression
The maxim has a terrible cone of fire
The mg42 has instant suppression
The mg42 has a huge cone of fire
The mg42 can be made right off the bat and can completely lock down resources in combination with mg bunkers, within the first 2 mins of the game.

Now after the patch, due to ridiculous amounts of complaining because germans were not slaughtering everything with no effort like is expected by the german playerbase, the maxim has had a major reduction in dps, and its one actual plus, the ability to pack and unpack, was nerfed.

So it is now basically a poor mans mg42 with no real benefit. In conjunction with the fact that soviet mortars were also made inferior to the german mortar, effectivly making us have no viable counter to german mg and mg bunker resource lockdown/spam early game.

Whats next on the chopping block? The Su-85 like so many people are complaining about? Yes, why not remove our only tank killing unit? Might as well, its only natural seeing as the apparent goal here is to decapitate the russian faction.

@MJ, while the folks here are a bit melodramatic about balance issues... they at least play both sides mostly.

I suspect the smaller damage and negligibly increased set-up time on the maxims won't change the fact that it's a very-low-skill start that's extremely hard to punish and very boring to play against.

The real benefits are the survivability and flip time, which is still incredible. Anyway, be interesting to see whether the maxim nerf is actually the kind of nerf that makes people use them in a more interesting way or just reducing their general effectiveness while still having them be way too good as an opening unit.

@Funkeh/Weehamish - while I'm concerned about the fourth man on the MG-42... on the Pak and the Mortar that would both get decrewed at one man, I think it's a really good choice.

@Weehamish - yeah, bailing is going to be a thing but at least that's a little skill-based. I like it more because it makes any true-sight ambush thing a real threat and also makes that guards car a riskier counter for the 222.

Hmmmm... sounds not too bad, although 4-men mg42s feel rather unusual. I am more curious for the changes to the tanks.

@mjsegaline: Your very subjective post seemed to lack any proper knowledge of high level 1v1 balance. I hope you don't mind if i ignore any of your future posts concerning balancing.

Hmmmm... sounds not too bad, although 4-men mg42s feel rather unusual. I am more curious for the changes to the tanks.

@mjsegaline: Your very subjective post seemed to lack any proper knowledge of high level 1v1 balance. I hope you don't mind if i ignore any of your future posts concerning balancing.

Care to play me so I can show you some high level 1v1? Everything I said was 100 percent accurate

@MJ, while the folks here are a bit melodramatic about balance issues... they at least play both sides mostly.

I suspect the smaller damage and negligibly increased set-up time on the maxims won't change the fact that it's a very-low-skill start that's extremely hard to punish and very boring to play against.

The real benefits are the survivability and flip time, which is still incredible. Anyway, be interesting to see whether the maxim nerf is actually the kind of nerf that makes people use them in a more interesting way or just reducing their general effectiveness while still having them be way too good as an opening unit.

@Funkeh/Weehamish - while I'm concerned about the fourth man on the MG-42... on the Pak and the Mortar that would both get decrewed at one man, I think it's a really good choice.

@Weehamish - yeah, bailing is going to be a thing but at least that's a little skill-based. I like it more because it makes any true-sight ambush thing a real threat and also makes that guards car a riskier counter for the 222.

You guys talk about mg spam, but the germans can pump out mgs way faster then the russians can, as russians have to build an extra building before the ability to make maxims. The mg42 also has a lot better suppression giving it greater lock down ability, coupled with mg bunkers which russians dont have.

Am i the only one laughing a little inside when germans have all that crap and are bitching at russians for maxim spams?

You guys talk about mg spam, but the germans can pump out mgs way faster then the russians can, as russians have to build an extra building before the ability to make maxims. The mg42 also has a lot better suppression giving it greater lock down ability, coupled with mg bunkers which russians dont have.

Am i the only one laughing a little inside when germans have all that crap and are bitching at russians for maxim spams?

before the patch maxium could kill german mg even if german one started shooting first.

love this patch. infantry combat finally feels right. maxiums are good but you dont spearhead with them anymore. you keep them in the back where they belong supporting ur troops.

ALSO SCOUT CAR IS PERFECT. Good job relic! has dps now but is no one man army like vcoh and still has weak armor. +1

You guys talk about mg spam, but the germans can pump out mgs way faster then the russians can, as russians have to build an extra building before the ability to make maxims. The mg42 also has a lot better suppression giving it greater lock down ability, coupled with mg bunkers which russians dont have.

Am i the only one laughing a little inside when germans have all that crap and are bitching at russians for maxim spams?

I don't think that's a valid argument, that you have to build an extra building to make maxims. I could say I have to build an extra building to get grenadiers while soviets can get conscripts right away. Both MG teams require a building to produce, and both can build that building immediately if they so choose to do so.

Care to play me so I can show you some high level 1v1? Everything I said was 100 percent accurate

Well, most of what you said was correct:

The maxim has terrible suppression
The maxim has a terrible cone of fire
The mg42 has instant suppression
The mg42 has a huge cone of fire

Thats all true, but you fail to mention certain advantages of the maxim. They were mentioned before:
Survivability (no quick clown car counter, mortar and sniper inefficient as counter) Speed (hard to flank and damage with vanilla grenadiers)
Damage (wins duel vs. mg42)
Cheap reinforcement cost

These advantages may or may not apply in any other than a 1v1 scenario(If you ask me, you cant balance this game for all game types equally.), and depend on map type (narrow, chokepoint maps generally prefer mgs).

Your conclusion, the maxim is "a poor mans mg42" is maybe accurate regarding teamgames (even more after the patch), but questionable in a 1v1. Besides that, comparing two units side by side from two asymmetric factions is not ideal. The intendet role of the maxim is more offensive, different from the mg42.

In my opinion, the main disadvantage of maxim spam lies in the mid to late game, where panzergrenadiers and proper vehicles hit the field.

You dont need to show me high level 1v1, i saw plenty in the recent TFN tournament. What i dont saw, was "mg bunker resource lockdown/spam early game" from the germans.
Maybe Aimstrong finds the thought of winning with "2 minute mg bunker lockdown" as amusing as i do.

Well, most of what you said was correct:

The maxim has terrible suppression
The maxim has a terrible cone of fire
The mg42 has instant suppression
The mg42 has a huge cone of fire

Thats all true, but you fail to mention certain advantages of the maxim. They were mentioned before:
Survivability (no quick clown car counter, mortar and sniper inefficient as counter) Speed (hard to flank and damage with vanilla grenadiers)
Damage (wins duel vs. mg42)
Cheap reinforcement cost

These advantages may or may not apply in any other than a 1v1 scenario(If you ask me, you cant balance this game for all game types equally.), and depend on map type (narrow, chokepoint maps generally prefer mgs).

Your conclusion, the maxim is "a poor mans mg42" is maybe accurate regarding teamgames (even more after the patch), but questionable in a 1v1. Besides that, comparing two units side by side from two asymmetric factions is not ideal. The intendet role of the maxim is more offensive, different from the mg42.

In my opinion, the main disadvantage of maxim spam lies in the mid to late game, where panzergrenadiers and proper vehicles hit the field.

You dont need to show me high level 1v1, i saw plenty in the recent TFN tournament. What i dont saw, was "mg bunker resource lockdown/spam early game" from the germans.
Maybe Aimstrong finds the thought of winning with "2 minute mg bunker lockdown" as amusing as i do.

Aimstrong was too busy using or countering clown car exploits EVERY game to build or worry about destroying mg bunkers. Take away the exploit and re-evaluate

Unfortunately, there are even bigger issues here they need to pay attention to. Relic knows the casual player base of 3v3 and 4v4 "for fun" people, is huge.

As I see it, Soviet is now unplayable in 3v3 and 4v4 even WITH a strafe patch.

To have a chance of winning, Soviets must do far more coordination as a team than Ostheer does. This is because of how the teching system is designed. Ostheer always has a choice of support or infantry units early game, except for the oddball who skips T1 (a much rarer strat now) and thus any player can field units to counter the enemy.

This is not the case for Soviets. Some need to field support weapons, some need to use M3s and snipers to combat the German early game. This degree of coordination is not going to be found among casual players randomly playing 4v4. But it's the only way to play Soviets. It was passable before the Maxim was nerfed and the Ostheer MG given an extra crew member, which gave Soviets a strong early game presence, and if team tactics were used, nigh unbeatable by experienced teams (I happen to have one).

Maybe things will evolve so some people know to go support in certain positions, as was the case with Montargis in COH, but the game doesn't seem to make those choices obvious...

I don't want the patch reversed because I am a competitive player, and 1v1 and 2v2 are the best venues for competition. This patch has done a lot to balance the game. But I do want to see 3v3 and 4v4 remain viable.

I have only one radical suggestion...The only way to balance the game for casual, uncoordinated teams is to allow the use of both factions in automatch. I suggest automatch be reconfigured to allow for Soviet and German teams on the same side for THESE game modes only.

Unfortunately, there are even bigger issues here they need to pay attention to. Relic knows the casual player base of 3v3 and 4v4 "for fun" people, is huge.

As I see it, Soviet is now unplayable in 3v3 and 4v4 even WITH a strafe patch.

To have a chance of winning, Soviets must do far more coordination as a team than Ostheer does. This is because of how the teching system is designed. Ostheer always has a choice of support or infantry units early game, except for the oddball who skips T1 (a much rarer strat now) and thus any player can field units to counter the enemy.

This is not the case for Soviets. Some need to field support weapons, some need to use M3s and snipers to combat the German early game. This degree of coordination is not going to be found among casual players randomly playing 4v4. But it's the only way to play Soviets. It was passable before the Maxim was nerfed and the Ostheer MG given an extra crew member, which gave Soviets a strong early game presence, and if team tactics were used, nigh unbeatable by experienced teams (I happen to have one).

Maybe things will evolve so some people know to go support in certain positions, as was the case with Montargis in COH, but the game doesn't seem to make those choices obvious...

I don't want the patch reversed because I am a competitive player, and 1v1 and 2v2 are the best venues for competition. This patch has done a lot to balance the game. But I do want to see 3v3 and 4v4 remain viable.

I have only one radical suggestion...The only way to balance the game for casual, uncoordinated teams is to allow the use of both factions in automatch. I suggest automatch be reconfigured to allow for Soviet and German teams on the same side for THESE game modes only.

A start would be to have a lobby system to make coordination possible in the first place. Even casual players in COH1 would often discuss theire strategy and who would chose what doctrine and such, before the game started. Right now, the game just puts a bunch of random people of different skill, and with no chance to coordinate before the game, in the game. For a faction that requires coordination this breaks the game, especially when facing off against a team of four clan members with teamspeak