Was just thinking about how to make penals more viable and interesting, one of the big draw backs in my opinion is the total lack of suppression present in the tier that provides penals.
What if the teching between the two tiers would allow the soviet player to choose between either suppression and defensive team weapons OR early aggression?
I think it would be interesting if the oorah ability that penals get with vet (1 star?) would remove any suppression for a very short period of time but also made them take increased damage? Would give them that suicide penal squad feel while also providing an interesting tool for soviet players who don't like maxim spam.
tl;dr : modify the penals oorah ability gained from vet to remove suppression but take more damage for a short period of time.
Any Thoughts?
Idea for Penals
24 Mar 2016, 16:13 PM
#1
Posts: 114
24 Mar 2016, 16:14 PM
#2
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Give them vet 2 -29% rec. acc.
Fixed.
@Kat, dmg is one thing but with their current rec. acc. even with Obers LMG damage they would be useless becasue of how fast they die.
Fixed.
@Kat, dmg is one thing but with their current rec. acc. even with Obers LMG damage they would be useless becasue of how fast they die.
24 Mar 2016, 16:15 PM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Long range DPS from 4 to 8.
Done, unit fixed.
Nothing more is needed, no big changes, no new abilities, no vet changes.
Just this simple change gives them new utility without impacting their intended role of mid range squad.
Basically makes them Rifles who don't scale as well, but work in contrast of soviet army.
@Aus
Not really, they'd synergise with cons well, they'd be usable from long range and wouldn't have to pretty much always commit to running YOLO to get into range where they actually do anything, they also deal 8 dmg, so they are not bursty at all and most importantly, they would not overlap with cons and CEs.
Done, unit fixed.
Nothing more is needed, no big changes, no new abilities, no vet changes.
Just this simple change gives them new utility without impacting their intended role of mid range squad.
Basically makes them Rifles who don't scale as well, but work in contrast of soviet army.
@Aus
Not really, they'd synergise with cons well, they'd be usable from long range and wouldn't have to pretty much always commit to running YOLO to get into range where they actually do anything, they also deal 8 dmg, so they are not bursty at all and most importantly, they would not overlap with cons and CEs.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Mar 2016, 16:17 PM
#4
Posts: 114
Bleh, not saying those ideas wouldn't work but they are a little dull (no offence). i want to see a squad of penals forced to do a suicide charge to make way for my conscripts 
24 Mar 2016, 16:31 PM
#5
Posts: 264
I like the idea of a suicidal squad, +1 to oorah breaking suppression for penals only.
Another avenue would be to also add the received accuracy as the cost of their accuracy bonus at vet2. Right now Penals do great damage at vet3, but they lack survivability so that damage isn't that great when they are being cut to shreds if focused.
Besides, their MO is to flame and satchel generally everything else is gravy... and man have you seen how fast flamers kill units in buildings these days?
So sweet..
+1 to oraah breaking suppression
+1 to -29% received accuracy, a bonus most infantry get.
Another avenue would be to also add the received accuracy as the cost of their accuracy bonus at vet2. Right now Penals do great damage at vet3, but they lack survivability so that damage isn't that great when they are being cut to shreds if focused.
Besides, their MO is to flame and satchel generally everything else is gravy... and man have you seen how fast flamers kill units in buildings these days?
So sweet..
+1 to oraah breaking suppression
+1 to -29% received accuracy, a bonus most infantry get.
Axis biased, Allied biased. Play every faction before you scream nerf, be a Coh2 player not an "Axis" or "Allied" player.
Playercard: 76561198006693960
Playercard: 76561198006693960
24 Mar 2016, 17:01 PM
#6
Posts: 673
I think, that would be enough to give to Penals PTRS Pack upgrade, which will also steal their "satchels" and flamers.
USSR hasn't non-doctrinal AT-infantry, I think they deserve some. And in T1 we have nothing, that could help us to stay alive against light cars/tanks of axis untill T-3 and SU-76s comes (they come not so fast, actually).
And don't try to tell me, that "AT-nades are soo cool, just use them for to counter axis vechiles...". And mines can't be only solution too. Otherwise, take out from Sturmpioneers their mines for same 30 muni, cos their Volks have Panzerschrecks, and that will be enough for them.
USSR hasn't non-doctrinal AT-infantry, I think they deserve some. And in T1 we have nothing, that could help us to stay alive against light cars/tanks of axis untill T-3 and SU-76s comes (they come not so fast, actually).
And don't try to tell me, that "AT-nades are soo cool, just use them for to counter axis vechiles...". And mines can't be only solution too. Otherwise, take out from Sturmpioneers their mines for same 30 muni, cos their Volks have Panzerschrecks, and that will be enough for them.
24 Mar 2016, 17:04 PM
#7
Posts: 114
I think, that would be enough to give to Penals PTRS Pack upgrade, which will also steal their "satchels" and flamers.
USSR hasn't non-doctrinal AT-infantry, I think they deserve some. And in T1 we have nothing, that could help us to stay alive against light cars/tanks of axis untill T-3 and SU-76s comes (they come not so fast, actually).
And don't try to tell me, that "AT-nades are soo cool, just use them for to counter axis vechiles...". And mines can't be only solution too. Otherwise, take out from Sturmpioneers their mines for same 30 muni, cos their Volks have Panzerschrecks, and that will be enough for them.
don't post in this thread if you are going to derail it.
24 Mar 2016, 17:08 PM
#8
Posts: 673
don't post in this thread if you are going to derail it.
Why not? I have suggestion about Penals, why can't I write it. If you don't agree - explain why? Maybe I will agree with you in the end, who knows...
24 Mar 2016, 17:08 PM
#9
Posts: 742 | Subs: 1
I think, that would be enough to give to Penals PTRS Pack upgrade, which will also steal their "satchels" and flamers.
USSR hasn't non-doctrinal AT-infantry, I think they deserve some. And in T1 we have nothing, that could help us to stay alive against light cars/tanks of axis untill T-3 and SU-76s comes (they come not so fast, actually).
And don't try to tell me, that "AT-nades are soo cool, just use them for to counter axis vechiles...". And mines can't be only solution too. Otherwise, take out from Sturmpioneers their mines for same 30 muni, cos their Volks have Panzerschrecks, and that will be enough for them.
You just invented Guards xD
24 Mar 2016, 17:16 PM
#10
Posts: 673
You just invented Guards xD
Yea, true
But I think, that T1 for to be more popular needs not "Frontline breakthrogh" infantry, but AT-infantry. If we want Penals as first, than yes, "Ura!" with supression break and small time immune is very good idea, they would be more effective against Flak-trucks or MG-bunkers - will do their job good, in other words, better than they do now.
But... I don't think, that even that version of Penals will make T1 for soviet players more attractive, than T2 in start.
Just 1 more question, maybe we should make same version of "Ura!" ability for Conscripts too? They could get buff to that ability with veterancy, for example. Since their molotvs have small very range of throwing it would be pretty usefull.
24 Mar 2016, 17:19 PM
#11
Posts: 808
why the hell would anyone want to just waste their manpower on suicide charges thats just dumb and will bleed the soviets. Just make penals damage output higher on long range so they become like glass canons and this opens the door to other strategy's such as using conscripts to soak damage in combination with penals.
24 Mar 2016, 17:28 PM
#12
Posts: 365
I have a whole thread about how to use penals.
https://www.coh2.org/topic/50599/the-current-state-of-the-penal-battalion
https://www.coh2.org/topic/50599/the-current-state-of-the-penal-battalion
24 Mar 2016, 17:48 PM
#13
Posts: 5279
i like the long range damage buff
ive in the past though something like an ability that breaks suppression (or grants brief immunity to it but can only be used if not suppressed already like HTD) to replace flare mines, let it have a debuff (disable retreat for 30 seconds? reduce/remove the retreat bonus to incoming fire?)- complete the objective or die trying!
(i really hate the lack of imagination in the vanilla vet abilities)
ive in the past though something like an ability that breaks suppression (or grants brief immunity to it but can only be used if not suppressed already like HTD) to replace flare mines, let it have a debuff (disable retreat for 30 seconds? reduce/remove the retreat bonus to incoming fire?)- complete the objective or die trying!
(i really hate the lack of imagination in the vanilla vet abilities)
#stalinwept
24 Mar 2016, 18:01 PM
#14
Posts: 609
Yeah, the vanilla vet powers suck, especially considering they were unique back in the original alpha test.
Anyways, long range damage is probably the way to go so you get a shield/spear dynamic between cons and penals rather then awkward overlap like you have now.
Anyways, long range damage is probably the way to go so you get a shield/spear dynamic between cons and penals rather then awkward overlap like you have now.
24 Mar 2016, 18:12 PM
#15
Posts: 677
Penal don't need double far DPS. They are designed mid to close and since they are using flamers will move to range 20 to fight or will lose the DPS of member due to flamer. They do need to have different veterancy bonuses and abilities.
If they need mode DPs and as long as they have a flamer upgrade that should be at range 20 and not at range 35...
Or a completely different role...probably of cheap cannon fodder...
If they need mode DPs and as long as they have a flamer upgrade that should be at range 20 and not at range 35...
Or a completely different role...probably of cheap cannon fodder...
24 Mar 2016, 18:21 PM
#16
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Penal don't need double far DPS. They are designed mid to close and since they are using flamers will move to range 20 to fight or will lose the DPS of member due to flamer. They do need to have different veterancy bonuses and abilities.
Or a completely different role...probably of cheap cannon fodder...
And volks don't need the buff they got, because they are designed as cappers and AT squad who is supposed to have weak AI
Go away from threads about units you have no slightest clue about.
A whole LOT of units had some design, in which they have failed miserably or overlaped with another squads and they were changed.
Penals are no exception here.
Again, STOP talking about factions and units you know noting about, don't you have some axis defending to do somewhere?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
24 Mar 2016, 19:49 PM
#17
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Please no fire-up in CoH2, it was such a shitty ability. It allows you to just ignore flanking mgs or bunkers and just bum-rush blobs past them. Terrible for gameplay.
I would rather a massive buff to penals damage and survivability, with a corresponding large increase in price, to make them like a stock elite unit. Trade off for no early AT is strong AI, but fewer squads. Would open up a bunch of the commanders with no call-in infantry for use.
I would rather a massive buff to penals damage and survivability, with a corresponding large increase in price, to make them like a stock elite unit. Trade off for no early AT is strong AI, but fewer squads. Would open up a bunch of the commanders with no call-in infantry for use.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
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24 Mar 2016, 20:06 PM
#18
Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2
Please no fire-up in CoH2, it was such a shitty ability. It allows you to just ignore flanking mgs or bunkers and just bum-rush blobs past them. Terrible for gameplay.
I would rather a massive buff to penals damage and survivability, with a corresponding large increase in price, to make them like a stock elite unit. Trade off for no early AT is strong AI, but fewer squads. Would open up a bunch of the commanders with no call-in infantry for use.
I agree. anyway Im building T2 when appears 20 fuel.
24 Mar 2016, 20:14 PM
#19
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Maybe give penal troops demo charges instead of combat engineers. Would instantly give the Penals more value while at the same time making the game a lot less tedious for axis.
24 Mar 2016, 20:18 PM
#20
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Maybe give penal troops demo charges instead of combat engineers. Would instantly give the Penals more value while at the same time making the game a lot less tedious for axis.
Awesome idea! For same reason, lets give obers shrecks, some people complain that obers are not used enough.
Pgrens could use some love too, I think we should take away LMG from grens and give it to them instead, nothing can go wrong with that!
You don't make unit useful, by butchering another unit.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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