4V4 OP OKW invincible early game vs USF

In 4v4, you are forced to engage in the early battle to fight for the fuel point. Otherwise you will lose probably. Due to the less variation of USF starting units, the non-doctrinal combination of the first engagement (usually first three to four units) must be ( Rifleman X3, REX1 or Rifleman X2,RE X1,grenade and smoke) since the unreasonable price and build time increase of RE. Unfortunately, USF is forced to lose the first engagement by the stupid game design as the early OKW unit combination is too strong. After losing the fuel point, USF has no chance to fight back due to the lack of artillery to break through the OKW FHQ sim city.

I have tried to analyze is there any way for USF to win the first engagement when versus OKW ,but it seems impossible:

First unit 1v1:
Rear vs strum

Rear lose

Second unit 1v1:
Rifleman vs Kubelwagen (Keep moving backward to remain max distance if riflemen try to get close, then riflemen will keep losing model and can't even make a scratch on kubelwagen )

Rifleman lose

First + Second unit 2v2:
Rear+ Rifleman versus Kubelwagen + strum

OKW win of course as rear can't deal any damage at max range and most probably get 2 to 3 model left before the rifleman come in the first unit battle)

Third unit 1v1:
Rifleman vs Second strum or second kubel or volks

Rifleman lose except fighting with volks, but the third unit 1v1 battle will not happen most of the time as USF has lose in Frist + Second unit battle already. The situation will become 1v3.

Not to mention more extreme case such as kubelwagen spam. While USF has no way to win before captain or .50cal except paying for a no-late-game commander which include WC51.

Thus, USF needs more different units at the early game. For Soviet and UKF, they can simply choose to build MGs to counter OKW bullshit tatics.

Early fuel point capture results in a gg for okw in 4v4? Please explain.

I would link u some of our 4v4 USF clan games(we went 43-4 in 4v4 before northweapon quit and show you, its very possible to win 4v4 early game as ALL usf, especially vs okw. really only ostheer stands a chance and its because thye have suppression


Really the keys are

Never send in a squad alone, evne in the first engagement. Wait till ur riflemen is with your RE to push with both of them. Sturms beat your RE? stop sending the RE by itself. Sturm and kubel beat your rifle+re? Wait for your second rifle, sturm kubel and volk? Wait for your 3rd. A forward HQ is suicide for OKW, if you need me to explain why i can.

Ambulance after 3rd, maybe 4th rifle for constant forward presence, soft retreat when you get down to 2-3 rifleman models. this allows you to heal up and basically out blob volks simply because of a high hitpoint pool+ damage output as the early game engagements roll on, they cant soft retreat as well as you can. ambulance heals better than anything in the game. Abuse the hell out of that.

Basically you want to keep regerenating your riflemans health, while wearing down volks and sturms with constant bite, and retreat assaults instead of full assaults with full retreats, or single half hearted assautls against a combined force.
Coordination with your teammates, as well, you need it as allies. of course if u have No coordination any faction is invincible.

tldr
attack with multiple squads, always fight an engagement where you're outnumbering. never send in one at a time, send in 2-3, when one squad gets low pull them back and just keep up a constant assault, coordinate with your team, etc.


And also, even if they nab the fuel and things dont go well to start despite all that, relax. Just have a General Macarthur "Ill be back" attitude, youll be fine

Wc51 + Rifles vs anything OKW (but raketen who noone builds straight up) = Win. If you need help early game go mechanised and you'll usually force them to retreat a very long way.

Rifles will beat sturms who close in on max range (rifles need to stand still).

Rear Echelon is for capping or hogging a building only.

RE also have volley fire btw.

RE also have volley fire btw.

LOL


And I miss 4s with the team @cookz sigh

LOL


And I miss 4s with the team @cookz sigh

Am I not right tho? If they can't beat them they can at least force them to retreat which is still an engagement won in my book.

Am I not right tho? If they can't beat them they can at least force them to retreat which is still an engagement won in my book.

No,you are wrong. While activating volley fire will increase rears received accuracy. The result is you throw your munition into sea and lose a squad before you can actually suppress your enemy( it takes more than 10 second to start suppressing the enemy).

No,you are wrong. While activating volley fire will increase rears received accuracy. The result is you throw your munition into sea and lose a squad before you can actually suppress your enemy( it takes more than 10 second to start suppressing the enemy).

Got a clip where the REs get their ass handed to them even tho they're using volley fire? Until you show proof of that I'm not taking you seriously.

Got a clip where the REs get their ass handed to them even tho they're using volley fire? Until you show proof of that I'm not taking you seriously.

It cut downs accuracy by 50%, increase receive accuracy by 40% and the suppression it adds, is not noticeable till you get weapons. Although it seems they ninja fix the ninja nerf they did (from 20 to 35 and back to 20). Unless the enemy stays on the open or crosses through negative cover, you won't suppress them in time as you will lose models quickly further reducing suppression.

Unless i'm remembering wrongly, volley fire was way better even if we account for the suppression nerf. IIRC you could change targets and suppress on the move. Nowadays it adds a speed penalty and it cancels the suppression after moving (although if you only order a single click move on the front, the speed penalty remains for some seconds). It's also bugged, as you can't use the ability on an enemy unit you are not attacking.

The suppression works against grens if you catch them at close range on the move. You will suppress them before they kill you if they don't immediately go to cover.

In 4v4, you are forced to engage in the early battle to fight for the fuel point. Otherwise you will lose probably. Due to the less variation of USF starting units, the non-doctrinal combination of the first engagement (usually first three to four units) must be ( Rifleman X3, REX1 or Rifleman X2,RE X1,grenade and smoke) since the unreasonable price and build time increase of RE. Unfortunately, USF is forced to lose the first engagement by the stupid game design as the early OKW unit combination is too strong. After losing the fuel point, USF has no chance to fight back due to the lack of artillery to break through the OKW FHQ sim city.

I have tried to analyze is there any way for USF to win the first engagement when versus OKW ,but it seems impossible:

First unit 1v1:
Rear vs strum

Rear lose

Second unit 1v1:
Rifleman vs Kubelwagen (Keep moving backward to remain max distance if riflemen try to get close, then riflemen will keep losing model and can't even make a scratch on kubelwagen )

Rifleman lose

First + Second unit 2v2:
Rear+ Rifleman versus Kubelwagen + strum

OKW win of course as rear can't deal any damage at max range and most probably get 2 to 3 model left before the rifleman come in the first unit battle)

Third unit 1v1:
Rifleman vs Second strum or second kubel or volks

Rifleman lose except fighting with volks, but the third unit 1v1 battle will not happen most of the time as USF has lose in Frist + Second unit battle already. The situation will become 1v3.

Not to mention more extreme case such as kubelwagen spam. While USF has no way to win before captain or .50cal except paying for a no-late-game commander which include WC51.

Thus, USF needs more different units at the early game. For Soviet and UKF, they can simply choose to build MGs to counter OKW bullshit tatics.

I agree;

On Hill 331, 4 Okws vs any 4 Allies mix will be able to get both fuels if they want, unless 3 allies go for 1 fuel... On that map 2 Wer +2 Okw are evenly more powerful, if both Wer are able to build bunkers fast...it's gonna be are if players are evenly skilled.

Thanks.

OP does have a point. OKW has more initial manpower, the strongest starting unit, and a fast vehicle unit that can quickly reach the frontlines in the early game. They can take whatever point they want at the opening very easily.

And not only do they have this much better and diverse opening then USF, they can actually hold these areas very well by setting up sandbags.

I honestly don't see how this is fair at all.

It completely shuts down USF early forcing them to play in a defensive state that they are not adept at.

Not to mention it also completely nullifies con spam starts and most of T1 leading to the current maxim spam meta we have now.

All is wrong, you never fight one unit with another alone, especially in 4v4, blob rifles harder. Also free map control light vehicles. Also grenades are very situational, you should never get them (early bars ftw) untill it is hardcore hmg walls open maps.

All is wrong, you never fight one unit with another alone, especially in 4v4, blob rifles harder. Also free map control light vehicles. Also grenades are very situational, you should never get them (early bars ftw) untill it is hardcore hmg walls open maps.

Yes, when you blob enough rifle, your opponent has enjoy +7 fuel for several minutes and able to build up tons of defensive structure and just wait for you to step into those traps. Not to mention OKW can blob same amount of volks or even more than you as volks are cheaper and you wont get a bar since you wont suddenly get a weapon on the field. As you have fewer fuel, OKW can get luch II way faster than you. Also light vehicle of USF is nearly useless, because OKW can get sherck at the time USF access any light vehicle except WC51. However WC51 is not available for every player.

common m8, rifle blobs are way too good right now.

and if you are fast your RET will win against the sturm on the start of the game, all you need is to grab a house/heavy cover first.

common m8, rifle blobs are way too good right now.

and if you are fast your RET will win against the sturm on the start of the game, all you need is to grab a house/heavy cover first.

This joke is not funny. As OKW has kubelwagen to capture point, its first strum get rush to the fuel point ASAP, you wont get a house/heavy cover first unless ypu mean the house and cover that next to your HQ territory loll

This joke is not funny. As OKW has kubelwagen to capture point, its first strum get rush to the fuel point ASAP, you wont get a house/heavy cover first unless ypu mean the house and cover that next to your HQ territory loll

Why can't you rush RE's to a house? They are starting units as well as Sturms? Basically listen to Cookies advice, it's pretty sound.

In general, don't fight battles you can't win and vs OKW, you need to blob your rifles as they have no supressions tools early.

Am I not right tho? If they can't beat them they can at least force them to retreat which is still an engagement won in my book.

Volley fire doesn't work vs good players, believe me.

L2P issue.