50 cal should be a vehicle killer
Posts: 395
Do keep in mind that the 50 cal was designed to kill tanks originally. Of course, not the kind of tanks in ww2, but tanks that were about as well armored as a luchs or a 222.
The 50 already sucks. It needs a buff anyway. Role expansion that covers the LT's weakness is the answer.
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Posts: 395
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maybe different attack roles? so it has to change between damaging armour and being a suppression platform.
So we give the US another unit that they need to pop the ability/toggle on for it to be able fight certain things? Jacksons w/ HVAP, 57s w/ HVAP, Shermans with HE/AP, and now .50s with a toggle of some sort. The biggest toggle choice and axis player needs to make is to put away a minesweeper or not.
How about we just make the most expensive and latest arriving mg in the game good? Would that be too much to ask?
Posts: 1096
So we give the US another unit that they need to pop the ability/toggle on for it to be able fight certain things? Jacksons w/ HVAP, 57s w/ HVAP, Shermans with HE/AP, and now .50s with a toggle of some sort. The biggest toggle choice and axis player needs to make is to put away a minesweeper or not.
How about we just make the most expensive and latest arriving mg in the game good? Would that be too much to ask?
hey I'm all up for that.
What I was suggesting though was two roles that deal very high damage to their designated targets rather than making it a Dshka clone.
Posts: 1891
45 muni button ability
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
My thought process here is that it won't do crazy damage to light vehicles, but that it would deter them from getting too close, like dancing an m20 around the faust range of gren squad.
Edit: Similar to what beefsurge suggested, just saw your post.
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Posts: 656
Another option that could help would be to increase range of the .50 by 5. Currently it has a range of 45 and as a result is prone to being rifle naded to death. If it could fire from further out (50+ range) it would be more effective at locking down infantry outside of rifle nade range and would reward scouting by the US player. This would also be historically accurate since the .50 had a longer range than lower caliber mgs.
Lastly you could just increase the crew to 5 men as that would help with the survivability issues the MG suffers from.
Posts: 747 | Subs: 2
Could just flatly buff the pen on the .50. Right now it has a pen of 2 while the Kubel has an armor of 4.5 and the 222 has an armor of 9. This means that it's only doing about 44% it's normal dps to a Kubel and 22% to a 222. Since the average dps of the .50 is 18.2 this means it isn't killing any light vehicles in a timely manner atm.
Another option that could help would be to increase range of the .50 by 5. Currently it has a range of 45 and as a result is prone to being rifle naded to death. If it could fire from further out (50+ range) it would be more effective at locking down infantry outside of rifle nade range and would reward scouting by the US player. This would also be historically accurate since the .50 had a longer range than lower caliber mgs.
Lastly you could just increase the crew to 5 men as that would help with the survivability issues the MG suffers from.
This is just too much constructive feedback. Let's suggest something we can have meaningless discussions and forum wars about:
I suggest a penetration increase to 20, moving it to t0, price decrease aaaaannnd Pershing that comes with every recruited MG.
Posts: 232
I'd certainly back making it more of a threat to light vehicles though.
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Posts: 199
Unlike the UFK which has impressive damage but reduced suppression this one should have improved pen.
Posts: 88
Posts: 181
Good suggestion, but only if we nerf Rifles in the process. You cant have the cake AND eat it.
How is this suggestion related to Riflemen? The purpose of this thread is to buff the supposedly under-used 50cal and to address the LT tier's lack of AT weaponry since it is also supposedly underused. Surely Riflemen would be entirely unchanged by this?
I'm sorry if I'm missing something obvious, I don't really play USF.
Posts: 656
Good suggestion, but only if we nerf Rifles in the process. You cant have the cake AND eat it.
The issue with that line of thinking is that the .50 is locked behind an optional tier of tech. Since USF tech is designed under the assumption that the player will skip either LT or Captain tier it means the player won't have access to the .50 half of the time. In turn you cannot balance a core unit based on the assumption that the .50 will always be present.
Think about it a different way. If the USF player went LT tier for a .50 then no pack howie is likely to make an appearance unless he delays his armor significantly. That itself is enough trade-off for a functional .50 imo.
Posts: 88
The issue with that line of thinking is that the .50 is locked behind an optional tier of tech. Since USF tech is designed under the assumption that the player will skip either LT or Captain tier it means the player won't have access to the .50 half of the time. In turn you cannot balance a core unit based on the assumption that the .50 will always be present.
Think about it a different way. If the USF player went LT tier for a .50 then no pack howie is likely to make an appearance unless he delays his armor significantly. That itself is enough trade-off for a functional .50 imo.
The shock value of the M20 is already enough of a reason to go for Lt, no need to make the other unlocks even better. Also no unit exists in a vacuum. Rif... Terminators already wreck any other infantry from the moment they hit the field. No need to give USF more options to look down parts of the map. They are also designed to be a mobile army, so the current 50cal is fine and fills its intended role. It is a decent unit for a decent price. If you want BETTER AT go Captain.
Posts: 88
How is this suggestion related to Riflemen? The purpose of this thread is to buff the supposedly under-used 50cal and to address the LT tier's lack of AT weaponry since it is also supposedly underused. Surely Riflemen would be entirely unchanged by this?
I'm sorry if I'm missing something obvious, I don't really play USF.
No unit exists in a vacuum, if you change one unit you change other units indirectly. So no this is very much related to riflemen because they are the core unit of USF. This is especially true for infantry SUPPORT weapons like mgs which are meant to stay behind your frontline and support your fighting squads. USF allready has free AT nades (Terminators vet insanely fast because they wreck evrything).
The Op wants the 50Cal to deny parts of the map to light infantry which is not necessary because terminators already do that. USF is not supposed to dig in, they are designed to be a mobile army and therefor current 50Cal is fine. If USF wants better support weapons the only choice is to make terminators less good. So take away Rifles AT nate and we can talk about a vehicle "killer" mg.
Posts: 199
The Op wants the 50Cal to deny parts of the map to light infantry which is not necessary because terminators already do that. USF is not supposed to dig in, they are designed to be a mobile army and therefor current 50Cal is fine. If USF wants better support weapons the only choice is to make terminators less good. So take away Rifles AT nate and we can talk about a vehicle "killer" mg.
The OP wants the 50 cal to be able to deter LV's because a certain tier at the moment has no AT options. Deter being the key word here. Your suggestion makes no sense of taking away the AT nades from riflemen, it would be the same as take away the faust from the OH grenadiers because the MG42 has the AT rounds at Vet1 but worse because you also have mines without the need for picking a commander.
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