Mortars/Howies: Nerf autoattack, maybe buff barrage

currently mortar auto-attack is only way to deal with op-sniper and op-grens

Yhe Brit and ost sniper already survive a direct hit and have to gtfo after so this change woukd diminish the effectiveness of that as a sniper counter and the soviet snipers had their Wheaties taken by the state and as such fall to a stiff breeze so they would kick it just as they do now.

Blobs are not static weapons and they can move, i don't think mortar or leig or pack howitzer barrage will be effective against them at all, but they will annihilate all support teams and infantry in cover. Great changes i would say.



Pack howitzer and leig supression overbuff is just another example of how right i am and you don't.

Blobs aren't static until you make them static via suppression. Once suppressed, you barrage them and force the retreat. Youre also forgetting that the OPs suggestion isn't really needing its performance vs blobs. Only against single FULL HEALTH squads. Do you like the idea of full health units getting wiped by indirect shells?

If you barrage enemies in cover or support weapons they should be annihilated if they don't move.

"Pack howitzer and leig supression overbuff is just another example of how right i am and you don't."
This sentence doesn't make sense but I think you meant " how right I am and you are not." Well, I saw the leig and pack Howie suppression buff as an attempt to deter blobbing which it did too well. Instead of removing it completely they should've decreased the suppression a bit.

At this point I can't tell whether you just want autowipe indirect fire or you just want to disagree with everything I say.

currently mortar auto-attack is only way to deal with op-sniper and op-grens

The snipers can take a mortar shell to the face and still survive. Decrease the auto aim dmg (so it brings sniper to say 25% health) but increased the barrage dmg to be able to one shot snipers.

I strongly dislike you suggestions. It will just render mortars/howis useless by adding tons of micro to make these units useful and encourage more core inf spam. Remember when they removed auto aim from pack howi and leig? They put it in back for a reason.

The snipers can take a mortar shell to the face and still survive. Decrease the auto aim dmg (so it brings sniper to say 25% health) but increased the barrage dmg to be able to one shot snipers.

Barage fire 4 times at the same spot. You never catch a sniper or any other unit with it. Nerfing mortars = total overhaul of them game. Relic was never good at doing even sligh changes.

I strongly dislike you suggestions. It will just render mortars/howis useless by adding tons of micro to make these units useful and encourage more core inf spam. Remember when they removed auto aim from pack howi and leig? They put it in back for a reason.

It will still auto fire and it will still auto engage enemies in its range (no increased micro there) it just wont be able to wipe a full health squad in an instant even though you actually forgot you had a mortar because you set it up behind a building with an mg in it (or boefers as brits) it will still wear down the enemy (might make them soft or even hard retreat( but it wont kill a full squad out right because rng said so. Barrage would then be an ability that requires more input but also provides more rewards with faster rof and squad wipe potential (think rifle nade vs just shooting at the enemy)

Unrelated to the autoattack nerf, I think snipers stats need an outright nerf and not the units surrounding it. Maybe nerf it for the mortar pit but nothing else pls.

Blobs aren't static until you make them static via suppression. Once suppressed, you barrage them and force the retreat.

They will retreat before first shot lands, than you wait long cooldown, only noobs let their expensive blobs die that easy, great.

Do you like the idea of full health units getting wiped by indirect shells?

Ofc no, please do not touch indirect fire weapons or they will be overnerfed or overbuffed dramatically again.

At this point I can't tell whether you just want autowipe indirect fire or you just want to disagree with everything I say.

Is that another mortar pit nerf thread, because it smells like that?

If a similar change was ever trialled before in the game, I can't remember it. However, I haven't been around since the very start. Could you tell us a bit more about what that change looked like?

He is probably referring to:
-ISG and Pack Howie having to be manual turn but having incredible performance (suppression patch)
-ISU152 having to attack ground on every shot but been both AT and AI.

They will retreat before first shot lands, than you wait long cooldown, only noobs let their expensive blobs die that easy, great.



Ofc no, please do not touch indirect fire weapons or they will be overnerfed or overbuffed dramatically again.



Is that another mortar pit nerf thread, because it smells like that?

I didn't know that blobbers have incoming indirect fire radar. They will at least get one or two shots in before the blobber retreats which (in my books) means it has been countered. If you had read the OP, you'd have seen mention of shorter barrage cooldowns.

You have proved my point here. Currently mortars are one auto attack wiping full health squads in one shot. I asked if you want that to happen and you said no. So don't want mortars to one shot squads like they currently are but you don't want to change indirect fire. Much logic there.

Is it another mortar pit nerf thread? Please quote where i asked for mortar pit nerf, or even a nerf to indirect fire in general. I never did.

What i'm agreeing with in terms of the OP, is that zero micro squad wipes (from autofiring indirect) should be decreased, and squad wipes due to good micro (use of barrage ability) should increase.

Barage fire 4 times at the same spot. You never catch a sniper or any other unit with it. Nerfing mortars = total overhaul of them game. Relic was never good at doing even sligh changes.

You really need to stop thinking of this as an outright nerf to indirect fire and more as a buff to good micro of indirect fire.

Barage fire 4 times at the same spot. You never catch a sniper or any other unit with it. Nerfing mortars = total overhaul of them game. Relic was never good at doing even sligh changes.

They Redid the way pen works (instead of flat value range dependant) and infantry combat (March deployment iirc?) those have worked out well. Relic wants this to be an esport and quite frankly a 240mp unit have a dice roll to instantly destroy a 440mp one without the owner doing anything but build the unit is bad for competition and with the Way sticky cover works and squad bunching its very likely to happen.

Barage fire 4 times at the same spot. You never catch a sniper or any other unit with it. Nerfing mortars = total overhaul of them game. Relic was never good at doing even sligh changes.

They Redid the way pen works (instead of flat value range dependant) and infantry combat (March deployment iirc?) those have worked out well. Relic wants this to be an esport and quite frankly a 240mp unit have a dice roll to instantly destroy a 440mp one without the owner doing anything but build the unit is bad for competition and with the Way sticky cover works and squad bunching its very likely to happen.

I do not agree with this idea for two reasons. The first is that mortars are already units that require micro if you want to make the most out of them. Sure, you can 'set and forget' about them and they will do damage, but you can also A-move a rifle squad and it will do damage. But just like with other units, mortars get better once you micro them more. To use them to their maximum effectiveness, you have to move them with your army, getting them as close as possible to the enemy to ensure maximum accuracy. You also have to manually target high priority squads so the shells do not get wasted. Proper use of artillery requires thought.

The second reason why I do not like your proposition is that it will just make mortars a bad investment against anything other than heavy support weapon play. Infantry heavy play often revolves around quick movement and flanking. Barrage abilities are totally useless in these types of engagements. Having mortar rely on the barrage will just send them into extinction like the heavy howitzers, but unlike heavy howitzers they do not even have the redeeming factor of obliteration the target infantry squad if they get a lucky first hit.

How about for Brit mortar pit? Not a lot of micro there, you gotta admit. Just two mortars firing all the time at longer range than axis indirect fire.


Why do you think having mortars/mini-howies rely on barrage would make them extinct? They'd still be plenty useful at moving/killing static units like MGs. They just wouldn't have such a large impact on the game as they do now.

A mortar with horrible auto-fire would be horrible against everything that is not heavy support weapon spam. Try to play against someone going 3 conscripts 1 maxim and see just how well your mortar does if you tell it to hold fire and only use the barrage. You will barely hit anything.

Mortars fire by scatter, which means that where the shell lands is going to be randomized by specific values.

A shell may aim for a specific entity and almost certainly miss by at least a small margin.

But, if 5 squad members are humping each other just off that target, they could eat the entire 'missed' shell for a devastating blow.

Solution?

Decrease the lethal radius, increase the non lethal radius.

If only an absolute direct hit killed infantry, and near misses dealt, say, 30, then a constant barrage of mortar shells may not be nearly as devastating a shock to a squad. Regardless, players would have the chance to react with a damaged squad instead of watching a squad get freak-wiped.

But ultimately, barrages would be for directing fire through FoW on certain (static) targets, as is their current function.

But honestly, to stick to the OP's topic, I feel that the barrage should either be more accurate, or more rapid than the auto-fire (for the factions that don't have the more accurate barrage, which I think is the soviet stock mortar.)

A mortar with horrible auto-fire would be horrible against everything that is not heavy support weapon spam. Try to play against someone going 3 conscripts 1 maxim and see just how well your mortar does if you tell it to hold fire and only use the barrage. You will barely hit anything.

Your missing whats being said here
Auto attack is not being changed into ambulance levels of AI, the proposal is JUST to reduce the damage enough that it can insta Gib squads, its not going to become useless by ANYMEANS just less lethal unless told to go hot.
AGAIN think of auto attack as a squad getting shot at by a Gren squad lmg (taking bits of damage possible model snipe if rng says so) think of barrage as the rifle nade (you told it to do something and it damn well will do it/kill potential increased)

Its not "auto attack wont do anything now you can ONLY barrage" its auto attack wont wipe full health squads but barrage can, also barrage gets cooldown/rof buff.

Auto attack would remain supporting fire, but not literally game changing in an instant without any input from the player

I didn't know that blobbers have incoming indirect fire radar.

When leig or pack howitzer shot comes it simply obvious and really avoidable.

i said why i don't want radical changes, lelic will make it op or up and keep it like that in 7 months.