Grenedier sandbags

On Pios, worth trying. On grens, nope.

Buff grens = buff cons. I vote nope. All faction have there different - and +. I dont wahnt mirror fight with differents name (waht i say mirror fight with gren accuracy 4Head).

On Pios, worth trying. On grens, nope.

+1

grens who can build bunkers/sandbags, would be really too much and unbalanced.

Buffing grens, because they work similar to tommies makes as much sense as giving cons stock PTRS upgrade, because volks have shrecks and were recently buffed.

Lets ignore all the free stuff grens are getting, which tommies need to upgrade for or don't have at all.
Lets ignore different economies and unit prices.
Lets ignore different armies and support units behind them, its irrelevant, lets give grens sandbags and cons LMGs, because it only makes perfect sense

Actually, if you take away AEC, the most UP faction are the brits.

yeah, with his emplacements, brens spam, strong at gun with free sprint , crocos, commandos (from buildings soon) and cromwells who are cheaper p4's versions. Katitof please, go play some 1v1 and come here to talk about balance then. Brits are bad if you trying to play non meta, such as Sextons or something.

I vote no, I think grens are fine as they are.

Ostheer relies the most on their potent MGs for support and defence, as they should. Giving them green cover anywhere would make them too strong. The faction is all about playing the map to your advantages, letting you plop green cover anywhere as Ost loses a some of what made the faction unique.

Most ppl seem to at least think ostheer as a faction could use sandbags. I'm curious as to how gren sandbags make them OP though because if that is what keeps volks ISs and cons form being OP as well?
Thoughts?

Buffing grens, because they work similar to tommies makes as much sense as giving cons stock PTRS upgrade, because volks have shrecks and were recently buffed.

Lets ignore all the free stuff grens are getting, which tommies need to upgrade for or don't have at all.
Lets ignore different economies and unit prices.
Lets ignore different armies and support units behind them, its irrelevant, lets give grens sandbags and cons LMGs, because it only makes perfect sense

If not on grens why not pios?

Most ppl seem to at least think ostheer as a faction could use sandbags. I'm curious as to how gren sandbags make them OP though because if that is what keeps volks ISs and cons form being OP as well?
Thoughts?

OKW, as a faction, has weak infantry and no reliable suppression platform (until the doctrinal mg34 hits vet2-3).

UKF has the 2nd worst MG in the game (after 50cal) in terms of dealing suppression (it's all about the Veterancy)

At the same time, Tommies are, and by far, outclassed by Grenadiers in terms of utility.
- Tommies don't have a snare
- Tommies receive a penalty at Vet3 which prevents them from using upgraded weapons
- Tommies have 75% accuracy penalty they get on the move (Grenadiers have 50%; that means they are double as effective on assault)
- Tommy grenade is not useful as useful as a riflenade (because of the Tinny moving accuracy, and the fact that they deal very poor DPS at short-range; as opposed to Grenadiers)
- UKF also has no reliable indirect fire to uncamp OST players

However, this is not about OST vs UKF. This is more about OST vs Soviets.
- Currently the Soviet player could rely on Mortars to break through
- By giving spammable green cover to anything, in what way can a soviet player break-through? (green cover gives 50% reduction to all explosive damage)
- If conscript spam is supposed to provide the breakthrough, why is it so unpopular?

Giving green cover to pioneers is questionable. However, it will at least reduce the spammability aspect.

PS: As I already mentioned before, OST really only needs the green cover vs USF. Instead of breaking the 2 other matchups, should we perhaps try to fix the one problematic matchup instead?

Most ppl seem to at least think ostheer as a faction could use sandbags. I'm curious as to how gren sandbags make them OP though because if that is what keeps volks ISs and cons form being OP as well?
Thoughts?

Its combination of T1 support weapons, rifle grenade, grens long range profile and mg, however I would like to test sandbags ob pios.
Cons - shitty far and mid DPS, no AI upgrades except PPSH witch doesn't work for defence.
Volks - no early pin in faction, no AI upgrades.
IS - they are questionable at deep late (upgrades + vet) in terms of balance, but in early game its balanced cause very low rof without cover bonuses, terrible moving accuracy and lack of "free" grenade or snares.

yeah, with his emplacements, brens spam, strong at gun with free sprint , crocos, commandos (from buildings soon) and cromwells who are cheaper p4's versions. Katitof please, go play some 1v1 and come here to talk about balance then. Brits are bad if you trying to play non meta, such as Sextons or something.

Let me guess, you already forgot how brits were pre AEC buff?

Let me refresh your memory:



This is with the emplacements, bren spam, strong AT gun(which never had free sprint and now costs MORE then back then), crocs, commandos(which were nerfed since) and cromwells.

You know what is a singular change between that curve and current one, which looks like this:



Hm?

Let me enlight you-AEC.

Its the only thing that keeps brits in the game atm.
Yes, it overperforms, but you're delusional if you believe brits are fine otherwise and without it.

What are you going to excuse that with?

Top 150 players not playing beta?
Or it not being ATs for 1v1s?

OKW, as a faction, has weak infantry and no reliable suppression platform (until the doctrinal mg34 hits vet2-3).

UKF has the 2nd worst MG in the game (after 50cal) in terms of dealing suppression (it's all about the Veterancy)

At the same time, Tommies are, and by far, outclassed by Grenadiers in terms of utility.
- Tommies don't have a snare
- Tommies receive a penalty at Vet3 which prevents them from using upgraded weapons
- Tommies have 75% accuracy penalty they get on the move (Grenadiers have 50%; that means they are double as effective on assault)
- Tommy grenade is not useful as useful as a riflenade (because of the Tinny moving accuracy, and the fact that they deal very poor DPS at short-range; as opposed to Grenadiers)
- UKF also has no reliable indirect fire to uncamp OST players

However, this is not about OST vs UKF. This is more about OST vs Soviets.
- Currently the Soviet player could rely on Mortars to break through
- By giving spammable green cover to anything, in what way can a soviet player break-through? (green cover gives 50% reduction to all explosive damage)
- If conscript spam is supposed to provide the breakthrough, why is it so unpopular?

Giving green cover to pioneers is questionable. However, it will at least reduce the spammability aspect.

PS: As I already mentioned before, OST really only needs the green cover vs USF. Instead of breaking the 2 other matchups, should we perhaps try to fix the one problematic matchup instead?

Well say man.

I vote no, I think grens are fine as they are.

Ostheer relies the most on their potent MGs for support and defence, as they should. Giving them green cover anywhere would make them too strong. The faction is all about playing the map to your advantages, letting you plop green cover anywhere as Ost loses a some of what made the faction unique.

Though they lose most their advantage on most maps - on those that have a lot of close quarters battle (both semoskiys, la gleize, sturzdorf) or flanking routes (both kholodnys). Or sight blockers (kholodnys). Arnhem checkpoint is decent I think, just a lot of building camping.

Langres, crossing and arnhem are probably the best ostheer maps.

Let me guess, you already forgot how brits were pre AEC buff?

Let me refresh your memory:



This is with the emplacements, bren spam, strong AT gun(which never had free sprint and now costs MORE then back then), crocs, commandos(which were nerfed since) and cromwells.

You know what is a singular change between that curve and current one, which looks like this:



Hm?

Let me enlight you-AEC.

Its the only thing that keeps brits in the game atm.
Yes, it overperforms, but you're delusional if you believe brits are fine otherwise and without it.

What are you going to excuse that with?

Top 150 players not playing beta?
Or it not being ATs for 1v1s?

I agree that AEC is the main cause for this change. I also think that players are still getting used to the Brits play style which is the most unique IMHO. Its most similar to ostheer which also seems to struggle in 1v1s.

I don't think Sandbags on Pios would be terrible... would at least be worth a beta test.

I think the problem is that UKF pretty much supplanted Ostheer as the archtypical defensive faction, what with their much greater emphasis on (effective) emplacements.

Anyways on sandbags, I'd think commander abilities should offer them, so if you really want them you're shoehorned into certain doctrines. Commanders that are focused on the defensive or otherwise lack hard hitting units like Tigers, could benefit from this. Commanders like Defensive/ Osttruppen or even Jaeger Infantry.

At least that way you're not stuck with every Ostheer player camping sandbags until Tiger or floating munitions for CAS spamtasm.

There's also the fact that OKW can also spam sandbags, but at least you need an OKW player with Volks willing to do that job.

I feel like sandbags wouldn't really fit Ostheer. Bunkers, and trenches should be satisfactory.