When are they Going to Fix American Pop Cap Exploit?

Never, because they said about 1.000.000 times its intended.

intended because it's not reasonable to fix it

Never, because they said about 1.000.000 times its intended.

If this is actually intended, it's the worst implementation of the feature that could possibly be done.

You've got a pop counter, which is the hard cap for every single team in the game, including USF. However, IF the USF player gets out of the vehicle, it lowers the pop-count (not explained anywhere in-game), allowing for more units to be made. It's then possible to get back into the vehicle, exceeding the pop-cap (also not explained in-game), resulting in the UI for the pop-cap to turn RED (i.e. bad), as well as display a value over 100%. All of this is without any consequence (which the red UI would suggest).

If this was actually intended, it would be explained either in a tutorial or via the UI, and the pop-cap wouldn't simply turn red. Further more, there would be some downside for exceeding the pop cap, as a trade-off of being able to exceed it in the first place.

No, my bet is that the feature was added, and this was an unintended consequence to which they don't really have a good solution to.

@Obersoldat

I hope you do realize that is not possible, unless you're fighting against some of the biggest scrubs in coh2 world.

Does it matter if it's a rare case where that is possible? It's still possible. Imagine if someone found a way to get two OKW KT's at the same time (using only in-game systems). It would be insanely rare, due to price, and it would only be available for one team. Would that be fair?

What about other "clever uses" of in-game mechanics? Remember ghost tank traps in CoH1? That was simply using an in-game mechanic (placing items) to produce an undesired effect. It just so happened that un-built tank traps had a very high amount of health and stopped vehicles. By the same logic as the USF pop-cap, that was completely fair use - in fact, it was on more than one team, making it available to both sides most of the time. Sounds fair, right?

No wait; that was deemed an exploit.





Super easy fix: Don't let vehicles be captured if it would exceed the pop-cap.

Click -> get vehicle's required pop -> check if current pop + vehicle pop > 100 -> if less than 100 capture, else do nothing.

Leave it, but implement a MP and Fuel penalty for every 10 over the pop cap. It is just dumb when they can consistently reinforce 8 squads of RE while having 8 M10s on the field and fuel for replacements at the ready in a few minutes.

From a 1s and 2s perspective if you're getting beat bad enough that your USF opponent can use the Vehicle Crew pop cap "feature" then you you are probably going to lose regardless.

I assume it can happen in 3s and 4s more often where stalemates will lead to USF players using the extra pop cap on Priests and Callopies - but its not enough of an issue to justify Relic fiddling with Vehicle Crews seeing as how they balance based on smaller game modes.

If this is actually intended, it's the worst implementation of the feature that could possibly be done.

You've got a pop counter, which is the hard cap for every single team in the game, including USF. However, IF the USF player gets out of the vehicle, it lowers the pop-count (not explained anywhere in-game), allowing for more units to be made. It's then possible to get back into the vehicle, exceeding the pop-cap (also not explained in-game), resulting in the UI for the pop-cap to turn RED (i.e. bad), as well as display a value over 100%. All of this is without any consequence (which the red UI would suggest).

If this was actually intended, it would be explained either in a tutorial or via the UI, and the pop-cap wouldn't simply turn red. Further more, there would be some downside for exceeding the pop cap, as a trade-off of being able to exceed it in the first place.

No, my bet is that the feature was added, and this was an unintended consequence to which they don't really have a good solution to.

USF crews are intended designs in the game. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there is no multiplayer tutorial for USF. Maybe, by some slim chance, there's some info in Ardennes Assault, but other than explaining the basic mechanics of the game, there are no tutorials for each faction, unfortunately. That's something that you've just got to deal with.
There is a consequence when you go over popcap. For every 1 popcap, you lose 1.5 manpower, I believe. If you're at 150 popcap (god forbid), your mp income is 75. Those numbers could be wrong, but the mp income relative to popcap stays the same no matter what popcap you're at. It's a linear equation. m=-1.5p + 300.

Leave it, but implement a MP and Fuel penalty for every 10 over the pop cap. It is just dumb when they can consistently reinforce 8 squads of RE while having 8 M10s on the field and fuel for replacements at the ready in a few minutes.

There's a mp penalty, as explained above.
If it's dumb that your opponent can replace tanks rapidly and reinforce squads, you've done something wrong. You've lost. You've been outplayed.
Sure, it might seem easier, the game may go on longer if your opponent was at 120 popcap, but they had the resources to spend on that shit and they're maintaining enough mp to keep that shit on the field and deny you the ability to recapture territory. You. Have. Lost.


In 4s, it's definitely a different story.
With Calliopes/Priests, it's possible to just popcap abuse. I do that but only if I have a solid fighting force first. I have 2 jacksons, LMG rifles, maybe an AT gun. If your opponent has 12 calliopes and a couple of fresh rifles, they're not a good player or you and your team suck enough that your opponent can have no frontline armor or infantry and still kick your ass.

If the "intented" pop cap "abuse" gets fixed you'll have to tweak ALOT of units popwise.
For example; no pop on the ambulance, less pop on the Major and less pop on the officers etc.

Every faction has a theme, so happens the US theme is that if you can't drain them and they can afford to keep paying full price for units, they will snowball you.

Just how OKW is given then unique right to build as many KT's as they like in a round, despite having been rare, or extraordinarily being able to build a KT and call in another heavy like the Jagd, at full price as the Americans do. Also there still exists the Sturmtiger trick, if your winning and still need the nail in the coffin plant a mine behind it, reload and detonate the mine call in the new Sturmtiger and recrew the first.

If your so hellbent on "fixing" the IS "issue" the OKW ones I've listed are a "must go" at the same time. But in truth the fact they all exist is feature at this point.

Even "feature" is debatable With examples like invincible transport aircraft for Wher, or corner cutting allied supply planes. Both are apparently causing bugs to attempt to fix and seems there's no further plans to adjust either. Honestly the US issue is a pretty muted point when 4 KT's supported by 4 JT's is entirely possible.

1. Ditch the whole vehicle crew popping mechanic
2. Add crew repair ability.
(3. Chance for crew to survive on vehicle death.)
Problem solved.

maybe some options
1. remove the USF vehicle crew, and replace its, with repair kit abilities for free (like the soviet ones, but not cost munition) :3 :3
2. remove the USF vehicle crew for the vehicle that's their pop cap 8 above
and keep the vehicle crew for the vehicle that's their pop cap are under 8, like M20, M8, ect
IMHO

Why not the following when pop cap increase over 100
the more the player exceeds the worse the penalty gets

penalty across the entire army of that one player

- add unit responsiveness delay
- increase received accuracy
- increase received damage
- decrease unit accuracy
- ammo income penalty

In my recent 2v2 I had 3 1919 Rifles, 2 pack howies, 3 57mm, 2 Shermans, Jackson, 3 Calliopes, Ambu, Major.

Good luck dealing with that

And no, my enemies were not outplayed. We had similar armies all the time until I started to use this feature

German tank crews in 44-45 didn't know how to repair their own tanks and didn't recieve infantry combat training. American tank crews did.

Sturmpios didn´t know how to create fuel/muni caches while osther pios did.

Osther pios didn´t know how to salvage wrecks while sturmpios did.


Rear Echelons didn´t know how to plant mines, while ostheer pios did.


...

In my recent 2v2 I had 3 1919 Rifles, 2 pack howies, 3 57mm, 2 Shermans, Jackson, 3 Calliopes, Ambu, Major.

Good luck dealing with that

And no, my enemies were not outplayed. We had similar armies all the time until I started to use this feature

I would love to check the replay of that match, how your opponent (not outplayed as you say) did spend his fuel, what was his army composition etc etc...

70+120+120+120+135+140+140+140 fuel is lot of fuel available if your opponent was not outplayed...

I would love to check the replay of that match, how your opponent (not outplayed as you say) did spend his fuel, what was his army composition etc etc...

70+120+120+120+135+140+140+140 fuel is lot of fuel available if your opponent was not outplayed...

Well, enemies had Jadgtiger, Panthers, Werfers and some Pz 4s.

In our last, winning push I used 3 AT Gun, 2 Shermas 1 Jackson (with calliope support) vs Panther and Jadgtiger (not counting infantry)

Wow, I am shocked at the number of people who think this is legit and fair. I agree in small games it isn't a big deal.

But team games it definitely is. Whether or not Relic intends it, or is just ignoring it, doesn't make it an okay game mechanic to have +50 pop cap. Late game team battles are often about critical mass. This makes USF decidedly unbalanced.

i dont belive that one or two papertanks more are so much OP in extreme late game

This is an intended feature.

In team games if the USF player is abandoning vehicles frequently they are leaving them vulnerable to off map and on map artillery. They are also getting very little man power income, and they are never ever losing a tank in combat.

How does USF even reinforce if their current arbitrary popcap is 150+, or 99 when the vehicle crews are out of their tanks?

Well, enemies had Jadgtiger, Panthers, Werfers and some Pz 4s.

In our last, winning push I used 3 AT Gun, 2 Shermas 1 Jackson (with calliope support) vs Panther and Jadgtiger (not counting infantry)

woho, as you described it, it had to be a great battle, really sad you don´t have the replay, but many thanks for your reply mate.


jadgtiger >> jackson
pz4s - shermans
werfers - calliope
panthers


of course we have to check numbers but it doesn´t seems so onesided because of USF max. popcap limit being superior than other factions...

What I can see is that your army composition was quite better and more balanced than theirs....well, I think so as a noob



Thanks for your reply mate.



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Just one question I was thinking yesterday after reading this thread, once all your vehicle crews are out of their vehicles, and popcap is 99, I think you cannot get more tanks, so at the end, it exists a limit in popcap for USF, it is higher than others factions, but USF has it.

I don´t know how many vehicles you need to reach that situation, though. but I think that photo in this thread has to be close to that limit if not already reached.

just sharing my noob opinion, really interested to see others opinion about this last statments.

Regards,

USF pop capping is the unintended consequence of the way decrewing works and since there isn't an issue fix relic has said that it's a feature.

How does USF even reinforce if their current arbitrary popcap is 150+, or 99 when the vehicle crews are out of their tanks?

same way other factions do when their pop is that high: they don't.