There is no point playing Ostheer 1v1 anymore

10 days is plenty considering the launch went live directly from an extended open beta.

We need a balance patch. And we need it yesterday.

@Enix: What game mode do you play?

That was VP match making.

That was VP match making.

Let me rephrase the question.

How the hell do you figure that video demonstrates anything other than Sov OPness?

since i saw some stuff about the m5 halftrack and how it's rarely used. i'd like to point out that it can put two squads in it, reinforce, and be upgraded to a quad which has almost equal stats to a maxium (damage, suppression)...mobile armored maxium with guards and sniper inside. not cool, right?

halftrack makes sure you have real armor on the field or it's gg. and even then i've seen players use it as bate german armor into kill zones.

i'm much more concerned about the ammo costs being COMPLETELY ONE-SIDED and weapon crew sizes

You can't have both the quad cannon upgrade and units inside the halftrack.

Ok, I am really tired of this bullshit Soviets are OP crap. You fools do know that the german counter unit of every Soviet unit is actually stronger, correct? It is almost pointless building a soviet t3 because the t34 is usless against any of the german t3 armor equivalants. Ever try to fight a p4 with a t34? It is a joke. So basically every smart soviet player completely skips t3 and builds t4 for the su85, which then gets beat out by a panther. The soviets have NO anti tank infantry, NO machine gun bunker that germans can completely lock down resources with early game. You wonder why we rush clown car? Because its the only fucking thing we can do to win early game and get ahead! And hey dude, one panzerfaust cripples a clown car, get a fucking grip. You germans are a bunch of pussies.

Why should a T-34 be able to counter a Panzer IV, which costs 80 more manpower and 20 more fuel. T-34 is an impact tank where it can have short window on the battlefield as the only tank on the field and push back the German player. Its not suppose to fight tanks head on but kill infantry and light vehicles and only play a supporting role in tank battles (flank or ram).

I admit the T-34/85 needs a buff or price change, because at the moment its not worth using.

SU-85 does not get beat out by a Panther if used properly. It has superior range to the Panther. The Soviet players need to maintain this range by crippling the Panther with a AT Grenade, or mine or the button tank ability of Guard Rifles. Once that's done he can simply keep reversing to maintain the range and kill the Panther without taking any fire in return. Not to mention if the German player can field a Panther you can probably field more than one SU-85.

Rifle Guards are anti-tank. True there not as good as Panzer Grenaiders with PanzerShrecks but if you get a rear flank on the enemy tank they do decent enough damage and the button tank ability is good when use in conjunction with a Zis-3 or SU-85.

Machine gun bunker lockdown is not a viable tactic at higher levels of play. They can simply be bypassed and the investment made by the German player is wasted allowing the Soviet player to bring superior numbers to win map control on the other side of the map.

We don't wonder why you rush the scout car. Its a really good tactic that's very difficult to counter.
Its far from the only viable strategy, mass conscripts and mass maxims work as well as do a mix of the above.

True one Panzerfaust cripples a clown car (except maybe the 1 in 10 times where it doesn't), but the requires grenadiers getting in range which is difficult to do if the Russian player has good micro. True sight ambushes are map dependent.

Ok, I am really tired of this bullshit Soviets are OP crap. You fools do know that the german counter unit of every Soviet unit is actually stronger, correct? It is almost pointless building a soviet t3 because the t34 is usless against any of the german t3 armor equivalants. Ever try to fight a p4 with a t34? It is a joke. So basically every smart soviet player completely skips t3 and builds t4 for the su85, which then gets beat out by a panther. The soviets have NO anti tank infantry, NO machine gun bunker that germans can completely lock down resources with early game. You wonder why we rush clown car? Because its the only fucking thing we can do to win early game and get ahead! And hey dude, one panzerfaust cripples a clown car, get a fucking grip. You germans are a bunch of pussies.

Okay, sigh, let's dissect this.

Shock troops are the best anti-infantry infantry in the game. Period.

And T3 is worth building. T34 is cheaper to build (MP cost as much as a conscript). And also, Ram nullifies German advantages, esp if you have engineers nearby, so T3 is never a joke for the russians. If anything, it makes tank combat a joke (In fact, that's what I haven't seen for a long time in COH2 - tank battles, Ram's made everything kinda boring)

SU-85 gets beaten by panther? SU-85 has a longer range than the Panther so if it's well screened it's even/SU-85 sided.

And I can't believe that you're going around, justifying abusing the clowncar to death. Conscript spam at the beginning is very viable (Spam H on conscripts, if you don't, you're just letting them die).

And if you're trying to launch a L2Play argument on this forum like this, remember that most of us are VCoH players who are frustrated a bit by the cheese of the soviets at the moment.

...i'm much more concerned about the ammo costs being COMPLETELY ONE-SIDED and weapon crew sizes

I agree with the munitions disparity. Make me think twice about using those early Molotovs and Oorahs. I think that would be a safe place to start with addressing some of the balance issues.

Currently the only counter to a su85 is the elefant, which I have not seen in a 1v1 yet let alone get one myself. I logged about 60 hours of coh2 so far and played a hell of a lot of games. I can tell you as a german only player there are a lot of whiners, however, some do have valid points.

First off, clown car is ridiculously easy to beat... 1 faust and some pgren or gren fire and its done. Sure you might have to give a little ground but if you expect it, its not so bad.

Soviet snipers, hmm not quite sure. The 2 man team is really frustrating, I feel that 1 always gets away even when I chase down with a scout car or fht (those mothers run fastn, I didnt know usian bolt was russian). So counter sniping is basically out. Which brings me to another point. This I have to agree with, the soviet support teams are a joke. 6 man teams!?! I can see now the soviet player just laughing when I get a succesful flank on his ridiculous mortars, maxims, or zis. I dont know how they can change this, but its got to be done. If anyone disagrees, I feel it must be trolling or sov fanboys. Please see the other side of the coin.

T34 ram combined with zis is an amazing strat and hard to beat. If the soviets get that sniper mortar too... oh man I start counting the vp ticker down as my units explode from that pinpoint accuracy. No1 mentions this but I feel some sort of nerf is in order for that unit. I may be wrong and im open to valid counter arguements.

I also agree, sadly, that I am not as excited for this game as I wish I would be. I find myself forcing to play games to get better instead of wanting to play games. I get frustrated when I cut off fuel for a good portion of gametime vs the sovs but somehow they are able to field su85s seconds after my p4. Though the sovs do get their fuel back, it is never for very long when I see sovs managd tanks on the field. Oh I should get pgrens with shrecks? Well then sov will have 1 or 2 snipers that widdle the pgrens down efficiently. Damn if I am able to reach those snipers through their su85s, cons, and whatever else they field. And my offmap arty or whatever the commander offers is usually to expensive since I got pshrecks, lmg, and fht aloing with the numerous other munitions draining abilities I must use to dislodge the sovs. Its not easy as germans thats for sure and it was proven in the tfn tourny.

Anyway I ranted... back to my original point, there is some balancing in order, along with things that should make coh2 more enjoyable for online players. But its not all THAT bad.

Pak-43 counters SU-85.

As for clown cars, landing that the 1 faust can be extremely difficult if the scout car is well micro-ed.

My personal tactic against Soviet Sniper teams is to build two scout cars. Send the first around the edge of the map towards his base. The second scout car targets the sniper in the field even if he is behind a wall of infantry. 9/10 the sniper will be retreated and my second scout car will be waiting for him in his base to kill him. I don't care about losing my scout cars (although I try not too), its easily worth it in exchange for getting rid of the sniper.

Counter sniping is basically out for the German player alright, but I use the German sniper as a manpower drain, just not in the early game unless I see maxim spam as first enemy unit beside engineer. But on occasion I get him mid game against infantry heavy Soviets, with good micro a sniper regardless of the faction can be a real pain in the ass.

You wonder why we rush clown car? Because its the only fucking thing we can do to win early game and get ahead!

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But seriously,

I almost NEVER build T1 as russians, and in the 15 or so 1v1 games I have played since launch as soviets( I do mostly Ostheer 1v1 and soviet 2v2 ) I haven't lost a game yet by going T2->T4 and some doc with shock troops. Also I don't generally go maxim guns! Most times I just build 2x engi, 2x script, 1x AT gun( or mortar, depending on how i feel ), 1x su76(barrage!), and then call in katushas if I need AI, shocks if I need AI and capping power, or su85 if I need AT( since su85 is such a boss. SU85 + 2x mine combo has saved my ass from DOUBLE panzer IVs more times than I can remember ).

There are many potent strats (some very OP) currently in the soviet arsenal and clown cars are just one of them haha.

I played a game the other day where I was mopping the floor with a guy(2v2). I had good unit preservation in the first half and he/she lost probably 7 squads ( scripts, guards, flamers ). About mid game my team had 2/3 of the map and things started going to shit. Guy spammed indirect fire units along with guards. 120mm mortars (3 of them) and later some katushas. Almost every damn time one of those mortars would hit, I would lose a full squad. I was even command queuing units to run in circles around points to try and stay alive, but that mortar fire would still take away my models. I built an leFH16 gun to counter but never could kill the last man in the mortar teams ( since 120 mortar can survive with only one model for some reason ). I was forced to build 2x panzerwerfers JUST to counter the mortars and they still were not totally effective at decrewing when firing in unison.... Probably the lamest game I have played in memory and the last 2v2 I played as Ostheer. Have been maining soviets since and haven't lost yet.

Ill say it. Sov=easymode. Come your troll let me feel your angry wrath!!!!!

Tristan44 please go play a game with an equally skilled player, do not use an M3, T70, and only 1 maxim. come back with the reply.


Then i will take you seriously

So basically Crells, your saying Soviets are fine so long as you don't use any of the overpowered shizzle from three of there tier buildings?

My only drastic change to the game atm would be to give germans normal mines, an equivalent to the soviets. It would lower the clown car dominance, since you can reliably defend territories simply by putting mines down. On top of that it would solve possible problems with t70 and and later in the game maybe even t34 ram (if they lower the speed at which the t34 rams the enemy tank, mines might be able to give you a chance of running away). The problem at the moment is that nobody is able to afford those expensive mines, since germans are already ammo heavy.

Otherwise I would only change some numbers and unit costs so far, as the balance is still very fragile and can quickly change, even without patches.

Tristan44 please go play a game with an equally skilled player, do not use an M3, T70, and only 1 maxim. come back with the reply.


Then i will take you seriously

Already done my friend, my fav strat is multiple t34 plus zis support. But good job assuming I never play any other strat besides the cheesy ones. I throw in some snipers and precision mortars for good measure too . pwned

My only drastic change to the game atm would be to give germans normal mines, an equivalent to the soviets. It would lower the clown car dominance, since you can reliably defend territories simply by putting mines down. On top of that it would solve possible problems with t70 and and later in the game maybe even t34 ram (if they lower the speed at which the t34 rams the enemy tank, mines might be able to give you a chance of running away). The problem at the moment is that nobody is able to afford those expensive mines, since germans are already ammo heavy.

Otherwise I would only change some numbers and unit costs so far, as the balance is still very fragile and can quickly change, even without patches.

This will kinda solve clown cars, which are too cost effective.

Sadly, it won't solve maxim spam, which leads to even drier games than clown car spam.

It's actually the thing that makes me not want to play COH2 multiplayer.

The elephant is a counter to the SU-85, but that's a doctrinal unit, and a heavy one at that. Its not "viable" in my book, since a player is then forced to go for a doctrine, against a default unit.

The game needs to have soft and hard counters amongst all default units in the game, spread out across different tiers. Doctrinal units need to be a bonus that strengthens your counters against a certain enemy strategy.

The moment I have to choose a doctrine, because an opponent followed a completely normal tech decision in the game, is the moment the game becomes stale.

In vCoH, this was the reason most 1.7 matches ended up in Armor vs Blitz: If you knew he had access to the superunit in the game, you were forced to up the ante, or die in the long run. OF changed all of that, for good or for worse.

Already done my friend, my fav strat is multiple t34 plus zis support. But good job assuming I never play any other strat besides the cheesy ones. I throw in some snipers and precision mortars for good measure too . pwned

I dont see any reply in your post freind. i could say i win by spamming pio's and that germans need to L2P op strat but no one would take me seriously.

I also doubt your post as you say you throw in snipers along with T2 units before going t3. which means by the time you can get a t34 out you opponent will most likely have a 1 p4 possibly 2.

@hissy re-read my post and the one i was quoting. Trist said sov= easymode and i pointed out that unless you go down the Internets favorite strats where you copy paste they are not that easy.

From my personal experience i find Germans a lot "easier" to play depending on how you mean easy.


@combatmuffin I completely agree with your sentiment about forcing doctrine on a player due to tech tree's i am extremely bored with having to get guards in 1v1s,