Ostheer Stormtrooper Upgrades

I do believe Stormtroopers get the same RA out of the box same as PGs. There a good unit for ambushes with STGs which is basically what they are meant for. If you want the shreck it's not bad as you get armored denction and can ambush overextended or low hp Allied vehicles. People like to extend until they're mid to low health and pull back. Destroyed many a vehicle with stormtroopers but than again Panzerschreck PGs with camo cloak is better.

Storms are 0.05 better, actually.

Note that mp of entity is "practically useless" as not all units follow the rule of reinforcing for 50% of it's cost.

Yeah. To set the record straight, Storms are 0.5 X 67.5 = 33.75 per man to reinforce now while PGs are 0.4 X 85 = 34 per man.

People against reducing exp requirements, cost of stgs, buffing of g43 and 1 panzershreck upgrade, mirroring pgren vet why?

I don't think anyone's really said that they are, just MoerserKarL thinks they're not as bad as you think of them and Aerohawk likes them while saying most of their upgrades are still bad for them.

On a related note, 4480 FUCKING EXP FOR VET 3 IT'S MORE THAN OBER VET 4 (Obers' is 4256) ಠ_ಠ

Obers don't have to wait for 2240 exp to go from 2 to 3 either (Obers' is 1600)...

No they are goddamn terrible. They don't do any damage and are more expensive to reinforce. There's a reason why everyone just grenadier spams. Just because they are better than before doesn't mean squat.

To be honest, they aren't that far off from being fixed. I think some small things here and there and you'd see them more often. (as Vuther said, lower EXP requirement, maybe STG muni requirement, ect.)

According to this forum, Stormtroopers are only good for sitting in camouflage on a strategic point until an enemy unit comes near. Cons are you need to keep an eye on them at all times or they'll get discovered and killed, and you need to always have munitions ready if you want the ambush to work.

I've been using them lately just to fully understand them. To those that say the ambush ability wipes an entire full health squad in 2-3 seconds is a complete and utter lie. The opponent has plenty of time to react if they are watching their squads. Hell I've had people throw nades at my stormtroopers while I used the ability and forced me to retreat or wipe them because they have a severe movement penalty when the ability is active.

This ability isn't any stronger, if not worse than the same exact ability paratrooper thompsons have, because stg44 dps is much lower at close range.

Very disappointed with this unit. Would like to see this unit properly fixed. Biggest issues again: Veterancy requirements, panzershreck and g43 package underperforming, stg44 package overpriced, veterancy bonuses not mirroring panzergrenadiers.

Please relic, do something. Make more units viable.

I've been using them lately just to fully understand them. To those that say the ambush ability wipes an entire full health squad in 2-3 seconds is a complete and utter lie. The opponent has plenty of time to react if they are watching their squads. Hell I've had people throw nades at my stormtroopers while I used the ability and forced me to retreat or wipe them because they have a severe movement penalty when the ability is active.

This ability isn't any stronger, if not worse than the same exact ability paratrooper thompsons have, because stg44 dps is much lower at close range.

Very disappointed with this unit. Would like to see this unit properly fixed. Biggest issues again: Veterancy requirements, panzershreck and g43 package underperforming, stg44 package overpriced, veterancy bonuses not mirroring panzergrenadiers.

Please relic, do something. Make more units viable.

They have camo and paras don't though.

Anyways I think the unit could use a Faust, other than that its fine IMO

They have camo and paras don't though.

Anyways I think the unit could use a Faust, other than that its fine IMO

Ya ever use this thing? Do you even own elite troops or encirclement?

i suggest a couple of improvements.

first the g43s.. They use the grendier version of g43s which have 0.43/0.63 F/N accuracy which makes them output same damage as the kar98k at long range. However the pgren version if g43 has 0.56/0.78 accracy which makes them far better at long range. You can think of it as gren g43s with vet2 enabled by default.

now if stormtroppers are allowed to upgrade the pgren version of the g43s, thier damage and surviavbility will be greater then vet3 grens by default. Ofc once stormtroopers get to vet2 the pgren G4s will become very good and will have higher damage output then obersoldaten K98s at long range.

I think most people will love it.

tl;dr let them upgrade the pgren version of g43s and lower vet requirements.

H.... and the G63 will replace two of the STG after .

Damn, that would have been an amazing weapon for Wolfenstein: New Order!

Give them Obersoldaten K98's and Panzergrenadier G43's. This will give them a bit more punch to make the G43's more worth using compared to the StG 44's.

Damn, that would have been an amazing weapon for Wolfenstein: New Order!

Yeah, as a Sniper Rifle. As an Infantry Rifle, the StG 60 takes the cake!

I would try the following:
1)Bring XP requirement inline with other units
2)Have the spawn with 2 weapons either 2 ST44 or 2 G43, plus the 2k98
3)Allow them to upgrade to 2 more ST44 or 1 shreck (Shreck can replace ST44or G43 if needed)
4)Make the shcreck ability either alway active similar to AT IS or costing no MU just having a cool-down.
5)allow them to be also built in HQ in the normal cost of 270

Give them Obersoldaten K98's and Panzergrenadier G43's. This will give them a bit more punch to make the G43's more worth using compared to the StG 44's.

But when you subtract opportunity cost(which all "arrive in the middle of the map" units have) you'll have a unit that costs almost as much as grens and much less then penals. Why should it have most superior rifles in game for that cost?

They aren't meant to stay without upgrade after call-in, but they aren't meant to obliterate target in the blink of an eye after popping out, they are the most balanced ambush squad in game, not too strong, not too weak, SCALES to the role you WANT it to be.

But when you subtract opportunity cost(which all "arrive in the middle of the map" units have) you'll have a unit that costs almost as much as grens and much less then penals. Why should it have most superior rifles in game for that cost?

They aren't meant to stay without upgrade after call-in, but they aren't meant to obliterate target in the blink of an eye after popping out, they are the most balanced ambush squad in game, not too strong, not too weak, SCALES to the role you WANT it to be.

Since when does 340 mp 45-100 muni become almost the same as grens and less than penals.

Yo can you PM me why you are vehemently against any buffs to an axis unit. Ive started to notice a trend with you, defend broken allied equipment, deny reason for buffing UP axis units regardless. Did nazi's kill your grandparents or something? Get real dude.

Since when does 340 mp 45-100 muni become almost the same as grens and less than penals.

Yo can you PM me why you are vehemently against any buffs to an axis unit. Ive started to notice a trend with you, defend broken allied equipment, deny reason for buffing UP axis units regardless. Did nazi's kill your grandparents or something? Get real dude.

Keep rereading first line of the post you quoted until you get it, but just in case, I'll help you a bit with a hint question:

Do commandos cost and are balanced for 350mp or 500mp?

And I have nothing against vet change.

I'll tell you about another trend happening here-randumb goes into his axis only 4v4, gets his ass handed to him, runs to forum posting nerf allies buff axis threads with utter denial of the fact that the real balance issue just started another thread.

Allies have a fair share of these people as well, but since more people play axis, you see more threads from them. You have a best example of aaa here, who I completely ignore as he isn't even fun to reply to.

Keep rereading first line of the post you quoted until you get it, but just in case, I'll help you a bit with a hint question:

Do commandos cost and are balanced for 350mp or 500mp?

And I have nothing against vet change.

I'll tell you about another trend happening here-randumb goes into his axis only 4v4, gets his ass handed to him, runs to forum posting nerf allies buff axis threads with utter denial of the fact that the real balance issue just started another thread.

Allies have a fair share of these people as well, but since more people play axis, you see more threads from them. You have a best example of aaa here, who I completely ignore as he isn't even fun to reply to.

Oh I see, for 270 mp. Hmmm. Even so, the units that you pay the cost for deploying from buildings (falls, commandos, partisans, JLI) All come equipped and useful right out of the gate for cost atleast. Stormtroopers do not. You might be able to cap a point for a follow up for encirclement, but you won't be able to do any damage or fight much of anything. Now if their upgrades were like cheap as hell that way they dont come with STGs right out the box (which would be OP). They are not fine right now at all.

Even spawning with obersoldaten kar98s and being able to upgrade to panzergren g43s for 50 muni, pgren stgs for 80, or single panzershreck for 60, mirrored pgren vet and vet requirements would be fine. To balance it out, upgrading out of territory could be removed that way they can still serve a purpose in encirclement.

Even for cost efficiencies sake, look at AT partisans. For 270 mp you get a cloaking shreck squad with at nades and mines. Pretty sweet deal their. Nothing wrong with stormtroopers getting the same treatment.

Hell increase cost to 380, remove building spawning, put cp to 4. Just something, please let ost have elite infantry that can perform. Stormtroopers are supposed to be near obersoldaten levels of good. They are practically the same soldiers. (same camoes, based off same unit, ost needs elite infantry and this is the perfect unit for it)

I see potential in this unit, and I want to like it, but I just can't. Relic needs to fix this.

..., SCALES to the role you WANT it to be.

It does not scales because of the XP requirements...

Do commandos cost and are balanced for 350mp or 500mp?

Commandos are balanced at 350 but there 3 main differences:
1) they can be actually built for 350 manpower
2) if one chose to buy a bren for them it cost the same but the get a superior version...
3) They can annihilated infantry while in ambush with no Mu cost...

They are generally far superior...

Oh I see, for 270 mp. Hmmm. Even so, the units that you pay the cost for deploying from buildings (falls, commandos, partisans, JLI) All come equipped and useful right out of the gate for cost atleast. Stormtroopers do not. You might be able to cap a point for a follow up for encirclement, but you won't be able to do any damage or fight much of anything. Now if their upgrades were like cheap as hell that way they dont come with STGs right out the box (which would be OP). They are not fine right now at all.

All of these squads have less flexibility(though falls ability and weapon kit is most all around use here), all of these squads also forego defense for the offense and have low or no rec acc modifiers, storms start off with less firepower, but have best camo and you can select a role for them after initial strike, which is also useful(with StGs and good use of ability and camo, they might just as well be called axis commandos). You can upgrade their weapons on hostile territory and decaping that point or chasing away HMG is what they don't really struggle when deployed, so they do fill that role here just as any other ambush troop. Upgrades are price-y, but remember their pshreck, much like volks, do not remove their AI potential compeltely and they can still be of some use here, StGs+ability+camo is well worth the cost already.

Even spawning with obersoldaten kar98s and being able to upgrade to panzergren g43s for 50 muni, pgren stgs for 80, or single panzershreck for 60, mirrored pgren vet and vet requirements would be fine. To balance it out, upgrading out of territory could be removed that way they can still serve a purpose in encirclement.

I still don't see why they would need ober kars, pgren G43 upgrade make mre sense here, but the squad costs 30mp more then grens and have default camo and much better rec acc, stat wise they are already cost effective as they are, I'm glad you understood opportunity cost quickly and I don't have to argue about that

Even for cost efficiencies sake, look at AT partisans. For 270 mp you get a cloaking shreck squad with at nades and mines. Pretty sweet deal their. Nothing wrong with stormtroopers getting the same treatment.

I've already explained cost effectiveness, but I can address AT partisans as well-its a 4 men squad with 0 rec acc bonuses against armies with weapons that have DPS scaled to fight 5-6 men squads. They do not start with AT nades, you want AT nades on them, you need to research them, its not their default utility.
And finally, shreck, yes they do start with it, but their rifles are utterly useless and they could just as well throw bad words at germans, so you're paying 270mp for single shreck on squad which is 50% less durable then usual soviet squads(which means its squishy as F and reinforces for crapload) and doesn't even have all of its utilities by default.

Storms getting same treatment as partisans would mean you'd have 2 squads instead of single flexible one.

Hell increase cost to 380, remove building spawning, put cp to 4. Just something, please let ost have elite infantry that can perform. Stormtroopers are supposed to be near obersoldaten levels of good. They are practically the same soldiers. (same camoes, based off same unit, ost needs elite infantry and this is the perfect unit for it)

Ost do have extremely cost effective inf, even pgrens are cost effective, which we've seen most recently on ESL(inb4 the usuals with denial jump in). Thing is, ost isn't reliant on any kind of elite inf, they have storms, but they don't need them and for the stats and what they do, storms are pretty well balanced.
0.75 rec acc, gren vet, pg weapons with useful abilities(though StGs>shreck here, no question)

I see potential in this unit, and I want to like it, but I just can't. Relic needs to fix this.

They are useful, but they are also muni sink, they aren't meant to be used like allied(soviet) elite troops as they aren't main line inf(however they can perform like one).

I got the feeling that people want them to be some kind of ost obersoldaten-that won't happen.

All of these squads have less flexibility(though falls ability and weapon kit is most all around use here), all of these squads also forego defense for the offense and have low or no rec acc modifiers, storms start off with less firepower, but have best camo and you can select a role for them after initial strike, which is also useful(with StGs and good use of ability and camo, they might just as well be called axis commandos). You can upgrade their weapons on hostile territory and decaping that point or chasing away HMG is what they don't really struggle when deployed, so they do fill that role here just as any other ambush troop. Upgrades are price-y, but remember their pshreck, much like volks, do not remove their AI potential compeltely and they can still be of some use here, StGs+ability+camo is well worth the cost already.

Fair, but even if you actually do end up getting the shreck is is really doing much for you? Its 1 shreck.

I still don't see why they would need ober kars, pgren G43 upgrade make mre sense here, but the squad costs 30mp more then grens and have default camo and much better rec acc, stat wise they are already cost effective as they are, I'm glad you understood opportunity cost quickly and I don't have to argue about that

My reasoning was to help differentiate them from grens firepower wise. Ober kar98s are a dps increase, but also give the unit more identity.

I've already explained cost effectiveness, but I can address AT partisans as well-its a 4 men squad with 0 rec acc bonuses against armies with weapons that have DPS scaled to fight 5-6 men squads. They do not start with AT nades, you want AT nades on them, you need to research them, its not their default utility.
And finally, shreck, yes they do start with it, but their rifles are utterly useless and they could just as well throw bad words at germans, so you're paying 270mp for single shreck on squad which is 50% less durable then usual soviet squads(which means its squishy as F and reinforces for crapload) and doesn't even have all of its utilities by default.

Storms getting same treatment as partisans would mean you'd have 2 squads instead of single flexible one.

Makes sense, though even though their vet, rifles, and having to upgrade at nades is bad. Simply being the price for a shreck for hanging cloak makes them more preferable AT squad. Not saying its OP, but that the unit is more sought after than stormtroopers

Ost do have extremely cost effective inf, even pgrens are cost effective, which we've seen most recently on ESL(inb4 the usuals with denial jump in). Thing is, ost isn't reliant on any kind of elite inf, they have storms, but they don't need them and for the stats and what they do, storms are pretty well balanced.
0.75 rec acc, gren vet, pg weapons with useful abilities(though StGs>shreck here, no question)

Pgrens with shrecks are great units, but its been shown the effort you have to put in to make ai pgrens useful vs americans and british is just too much and just not worth it. Works fine vs soviets.

They are useful, but they are also muni sink, they aren't meant to be used like allied(soviet) elite troops as they aren't main line inf(however they can perform like one).

I got the feeling that people want them to be some kind of ost obersoldaten-that won't happen.

I don't think them becoming ostheers doctrinal obersoldaten for the right mp and muni price would do much harm, since they would just basically be more expensive commandos, but thats just my opinion.

Just lower their STG cost and they'll be fine.

I've applied more thought to the Storms after just mucking around with them:

-Faust (yes)

-Their base rifles should be more accurate while moving. (.65)Actually all their possible small arms; this promotes movement and flanking.

-upgrades are a bit too costly.

-bundle grenade sucks for the price, I'd prefer the pre-nerf Volk frag. Imagine with camo ( D

Overall a nice unit with utility, can fight infantry, light vehicles, and good at playing commando. But a little too expensive muni wise, and lack of snare means you can't use it on the flanks to harass. (It's job.)