Troop Training: The Re-implementation

I'm sure we all remember that old pre-patch elite troops that we knew, & loved, & hated, & and Frowned upon & and concluded with either "German's OP " or "Wehrmacht Master Race FTW ". I have been brainstorming for a little bit on how the elite troops main, unique ability (Troop Training) could return in a "more balanced" form. I was thinking due to all of relic's "No Counter-Play Involved" comments, and I came up with a replacement. The replacement is a (300 MP, 8 Population) 3 man squad which consists of the same model as the Arty Field Officer armed with a Luger 9 mm (90 MP to reinforce), and 2 Panzer grenadiers armed with g43's (85 MP to reinforce). They have a 1 CP requirement to deploy, and there can only be 1 officer squad on the field at a time. There can either only have 1 per game, or has something like a 5 minute deployment regeneration time. The squad has the troop training ability, but it now costs 110 MP and 30 fuel to reduce the chances of people over-using the ability. It also has the Force Retreat ability that the sturm officer has. The squad can only use the troop training & force retreat abilities when the officer is alive. If the officer dies, all units near it will retreat (Also like the sturm officer). Please tell me any changes you would make to this unit if it was added to the elite troops doctrine in replacement for the storm troopers ability. Please do not forget to post your opinion down below, and enter in your opinion in the poll.

NOTICE: I have nothing against the post-patch elite troops doctrine, and I still find it a good doctrine.

Have a good day
~Karbinder

Chances are, he would sit in base and be borderline impossible to counter anyways. I'm not really sure this'll work. Even with some of the combat bonuses and force retreat, it'll likely be the same old same old.

I never thought it was imbalanced, iirc it was 80MP / 25FU, that's 5 more fuel than building T1. A Vet 3 Grenadier squad cost you 320MP / 25FU, and a Vet 2 Panzer IV was 510MP / 175 (+ a sliver of XP), slightly more than a Panther at 490MP / 175FU. The pricing meant you could gain a more elite force, but you would have less of them.

I have nothing against Stormtroopers but I'd prefer any of OKW's call-in Infantry to them. Panzerfusiliers, Fallschirmjägers, Jäger Light Infantry, or even call-in Obersoldaten.

I'm against troop training on principle. Veterancy is in the game to reward you for squad preservation, troop training allows you to buy your way past good playing.

I'm against troop training on principle. Veterancy is in the game to reward you for squad preservation, troop training allows you to buy your way past good playing.

And that's why they removed it, correct?

The best way to re-implement Troop Training, in my opinion, would be to make it a timed ability with a set cost. During this time, all units under the player's control would gain faster experience through normal methods which is combat. The increased rate could be from 15-20%. High enough that its noticeable, but low enough that it would actually not enough to scare opponents of from fighting in fear of creating an army of Vet 3 units.

The best way to re-implement Troop Training, in my opinion, would be to make it a timed ability with a set cost. During this time, all units under the player's control would gain faster experience through normal methods which is combat. The increased rate could be from 15-20%. High enough that its noticeable, but low enough that it would actually not enough to scare opponents of from fighting in fear of creating an army of Vet 3 units.

This seems the best way to go. +1

And that's why they removed it, correct?

Yes.

While I get understand your point, I dont feel like Veting abilities and resource redistribution are simply not where we want to go.

The best way to re-implement Troop Training, in my opinion, would be to make it a timed ability with a set cost. During this time, all units under the player's control would gain faster experience through normal methods which is combat. The increased rate could be from 15-20%. High enough that its noticeable, but low enough that it would actually not enough to scare opponents of from fighting in fear of creating an army of Vet 3 units.

That's a substantial increase, Vet 3 panzerwerfers anyone?

I think it's safe to say a overwhelming no, and for good reason. Powers like resource redistribution, etc consider unacceptable for a comparative game

Regardless of what ppl think about troop training relic had no right to remove it , some ppl actually paid for the doctrine just to get that ability.
they should definitely put it back in the game .
ps : since i stopped using elite troops i got so much better at this game .

Regardless of what ppl think about troop training relic had no right to remove it , some ppl actually paid for the doctrine just to get that ability.
they should definitely put it back in the game .
ps : since i stopped using elite troops i got so much better at this game .

Relic had full rights to remove it. In a way, it helped balance some games since it prevented Ostheer players to get full vetted infantry tearing up infantry at certain points of matches. Also, the Veteran riflemen were being taken out so to leave it would be in the favor of the axis.

with the possible exception of fielding a turbo mortar. I'm pretty sure the general consensus was paying fuel for veterancy, especially with the new pop cap system, was a great way to lose.

I came up with a replacement. The replacement is a (300 MP, 8 Population) 3 man squad which consists of the same model as the Arty Field Officer armed with a Luger 9 mm (90 MP to reinforce), and 2 Panzer grenadiers armed with g43's (85 MP to reinforce). They have a 1 CP requirement to deploy, and there can only be 1 officer squad on the field at a time. There can either only have 1 per game, or has something like a 5 minute deployment regeneration time. The squad has the troop training ability, but it now costs 110 MP and 30 fuel to reduce the chances of people over-using the ability. It also has the Force Retreat ability that the sturm officer has. The squad can only use the troop training & force retreat abilities when the officer is alive. If the officer dies, all units near it will retreat (Also like the sturm officer).

Unit that is Sturm Offizier clone plus troop training would be a no, as it combine two abilities into one. In a way the Troop Training thing is moot since you can use the unit just like any officer squad to go cap points and force retreat, so you can totally ignore Troop Training. Hell you might have a better chance getting the unit into the game if it was simply a straight up Sturm Offizier clone.

If I were to improve your unit idea, I'd say that it carries a vet multiplier aura, contrasted with OKW Sturm Offizers generic buff aura. Units that gain XP within the radius gain like 50% more. No longer do you have this "pay for vet" that Relic whined so much about: counterplay is you don't have him close enough for the effects to take place, or he gets killed off because the enemy focuses fire on it. Still encourages preservation but doesn't present an immediate veterancy effect.

I never found Troop Training to be an issue though, vet3 Grenadiers aren't invulnerable to suppression or squad wipe to mortar. It certainly became less useful the larger your team size becomes. Most of the time I op for that commander I go for the Tiger Ace + G43s + Smoke combo, Troop Training was more or less an afterthought and only when you have a unit in HQ sector and the resources to spare.

Relic had full rights to remove it. In a way, it helped balance some games since it prevented Ostheer players to get full vetted infantry tearing up infantry at certain points of matches. Also, the Veteran riflemen were being taken out so to leave it would be in the favor of the axis.

From a balance point of view u have a point , from an ethical point of view it's wrong to remove troop training .
They changed a product which ppl paid for.

From a balance point of view u have a point , from an ethical point of view it's wrong to remove troop training .
They changed a product which ppl paid for.

Times have changed. I remember the days when Soviet Industry was so powerful that people bought that commander just to get an early T-34. They changed that commander at some point to that it was useless and until recently, Soviet Industry was hardly used other than just trolling the enemy team with a late KV-2.

So from an ethical point of view, there are other commanders/stuff that Relic have also neglected and Elite Troops Doctrine is not the only one.

Plus,it would be unfair that one faction would get an ability to instantaneously get their veterancy while the rest have to work towards their veterancy.