PIATs? Anyone make use of them?

So I was messing around against the AI to test out the UC's vickers upgrade (it's utter garbage btw - wasp's the only viable choice) and thought I'd give PIATs a chance, having tried using them en mass to TRY and knock out an Elefant the other day.

So after disabling the engines of a few luchs' and firing at the back of a static P.IV I've come to the conclusion that even with 1000 pen and 1000 damage, PIATs would still be useless. They can't hit anything. Moving or stationary. Even using attack ground varies wildly between rare pin point precision and 20m overshoots. You're better off shooting with AT rifles or the Sniper, I'd wager a dank hunter IS's AT DPS is twice what a dual-PIAT squad's is. Despite doing only 40 damage a hit.

I get that they only cost 40 munis, but right now that munitions is only good for reducing your squad's firepower. I'd much rather pay twice that if they could reliably hit anything, after all their stats aren't too dissimilar to the ever popular Panzerschreck.

From what I can see the main issue is a combination of the projectile speed and godawful accuracy. Since they don't have TOW-missle homing like Pschreks, they don't roll hits. They work like a mortar - any 'hits' you get are a result of the target coinciding with the projectile.

Due to the terrible speed, an Elefant can trundle off at a leisurely pace as PIATs harmlessly re-landscape the ground around it. Thanks to unparalleled 'accuracy', a stationary 222, Kubel or Luchs can sit and brew a nice cuppa whilst 3 PIATs entertain the crew with a fireworks display. As soon as the vehicle starts to move even the slightest amount (even with engine damage), any remote chance of a hit vanishes.

I'd love to see PIATs become usable, but at the same time fear them becoming schreck blob 2.0.

After 6 piats the critical mass is so bad that you need to pin them down with mg and bombard the blob with mortars/leig, at least ost dedicated AI vehicles need to run from them... and if you say they can run around them then learn to build AT-gun to back piats.

Against infatry, they negate cover, give aoe damage, wipe weapon teams. IF try close up they start to do those one shot pointblack modelkill shots.
Against tanks, salvo of 6 or more piats, well if luch is not dead its running for safety like every tank.
Or the piat blob fails miserably... only 2 options...

If you are good microing use AEC some of its smoke and Target Tread then bombard the tank with piats...

If you are good microing use AEC some of its smoke and Target Tread then bombard the tank with piats...

Except Target tread often bugs out, just like churchills grenade. Not to mention, takes ages to hit / register

After 6 piats the critical mass is so bad that you need to pin them down with mg and bombard the blob with mortars/leig, at least ost dedicated AI vehicles need to run from them... and if you say they can run around them then learn to build AT-gun to back piats.

Against infatry, they negate cover, give aoe damage, wipe weapon teams. IF try close up they start to do those one shot pointblack modelkill shots.
Against tanks, salvo of 6 or more piats, well if luch is not dead its running for safety like every tank.
Or the piat blob fails miserably... only 2 options...

If you are good microing use AEC some of its smoke and Target Tread then bombard the tank with piats...

Ofc I use the 6lb'er. As an ATG it should always be the main source of AT. I currently use a lot of mines to support it, but was wondering if there was any way to make PIATs complement it without resorting to skill-less a-move blobs.

I'm worried that PIATs need to hit 'critical mass' of 6+ to be useful. 1-2 schrecks is enough to deter most vehicles. But I suppose this just reinforces the fact that CoH rewards blobbing.

PIATs are perfect for what they are (indirect fire support). Try to use them as Panzershrecks, and you will fail.

Even using attack ground varies wildly between rare pin point precision and 20m overshoots.

If you really think about it, you have your answer right there:

Always aim for (where you think) the front of the enemy vehicle will be. Thus, even if the PIAT overshoots you still have a very good chance to hit.

Increase the price of PIATs, and you are nerfing the Brits' only form of offensive indirect fire (until 10-CP abilities kick in). How are you ever going to siege OKW trucks against a LEIG-spammer?

Imo, this is how you use PIATs:

PIATs are nowhere nearly as bad as bazookas (bazookas are terrible vs Axis armour, awesome vs USF/SU armour).

In smaller team-modes (1v1 and, perhaps, 2v2), I wouldn't really ever bother with PIATs, because 6pdr > PIAT.

In clusterfuck team-modes, however, PIATs become little miracle-workers:
- They can be fired over hedges/obstacles
- They are way more mobile than the 6pdr, and can also retreat if needed
- They have great DPS for their cost (cheap MU price, low reinforce cost)

Use them:
- To deter heavy-armour pushes
- As your only indirect fire option vs Trucks (the whole hedges thing I mentioned before)
- vs people that underestimate them. They will pay the price

The downside is that PIATs require a lot more micro (hence, not suitable for 1v1) . Here are some tips:
- You should ALWAYS use attack ground, so that you can get more predictable results
- PIATs tend to overshoot by a little bit, thus you need to aim a bit closer to compensate
- Keep your PIAT squads spread, so that even if you miscalculate, you will at least score a few hits

Source: I have been using what I preach for the past 2 months, and I have been consistently good, sometimes game-changing, results with them.

Make it so the PIATS autofire over shotblockers

PIAT basically ignore armor thickness as it deal 80 damage on deflection, and it's cheap.

It's a Anti-tank weapon designed for use against heavies.

The british should rely on other weapon for dealing with medium and light tanks

(buff the aec)

In vCoH Brits could Button Vehicle with Brens (like Guards with DP-28 now) and then fire PIATS on a crippled vehicle.

They are great against okw structures , but I don't think many ppl have noticed.

Make it so the PIATS autofire over shotblockers

This is something rly rly bad... lost good ambushes because they do shoot sometimes over shotblockers/vision blockers...

(buff the aec)

Nothing more that make it veterancy requirement for ability shot. Only problem is that most people choose bofors, can't blame them, it can suppress people on Victory point, denying it, can kill masses of people, counters most of the vehicles aec counters, shoots down aeroplanes, does not need to micro.

I honestly think they're underrated.

Yes, you would need 5 to 6 of them to do any significant damage if all you had was PIATs, but then again you shouldn't have just PIATs.

Look at it this way:
It used to be that with a double 6-pdr you had access to pretty much all the AT you would ever need to take out a tank, and you could get em pretty early game. But with the manpower increase, getting that 2nd 6-pdr early is more risky. PIATs allow you to offset some of that AT manpower cost into ammo. You could do it before as well, it's just that you didn't need to most of the time.

Since Brits don't have much ammo expenses early game, it's easy to get 2-3 PIATs as soon as you unlock them as well as 1-2 Brens. In conjunction with the AT-gun, you'll be secured against light vehicle play while Brens secure you against heavy infantry builds. I would advise against double PIATs on a single IS because you want them to remain flexible. Go for a mix of Bren and PIATs for that bit of mobile AT or double Bren for that anti-inf wiping power.

I wouldn't be against an increase in projectile speed for PIATs but I don't think they should be significantly more reliable than they are now. Their goal is to tip the scales in your favor, not to win with no other support.

I like the weapon, it's a short range weapon, they are very effective for a defensive position which is the core of the Brit infantry core concept. (which ironically what all shoulder fire at is designated and should be) and they are CHEAP which is great for a mun heavy army like the Brits.