Two fireflies vs two JP4s: gg wp
Two fireflies vs JT or Elefant, no way u can flank/kill that even with Rockets unless ur opponent is a retard (&and get away with any of ur fireflies considering how much hp they have)
I would say it would be fine if it had a better movement performance and reload, and I would be totally happy if they would even totally removed the tulips from the game
Remember comrade, it's not only FF vs german tanks.
You could have artillery cover ability or strafing run or P-47s or plus troopers.
Remember comrade, it's not only FF vs german tanks.
You could have artillery cover ability or strafing run or P-47s or plus troopers.
ya man, that's a different story, but I mean, there is a reason why we don't see FF as often in the game as we see other units, it never made sense to me why its reload time should be longer than JT or elefant!
Nerf tulip. Less damage or make it only fire one rocket but cost less for the same cooldown.
Increase rate of fire, so it's slightly slower than Jackson (0.5 or 1 second slower)
Decrease shot damage to 160
Increase penetration a fair bit
Basically, the Jackson and Firefly will be complementary TDs for different tasks, with the Jackson having better damage but lower penetration. The Jackson is better at hitting Mediums, while the Firefly is better at hitting heavies. The Firefly will also have more health and better armor, which along with (nerfed) tulips justifies its higher cost despite having worse DPS against mediums. This would also be "more realistic" in some sense, with the FF's 17 pounder being more effective at armor penetration, particularly with APDS, but using a smaller calibre shell (thus less damage per shot).
I like how axis players can't just use a medium tank, expect to do some damage and then pull out. The Firefly is a bit like a mini-version of a Jagdtiger or Elefant.
I like how axis players can't just use a medium tank, expect to do some damage and then pull out. The Firefly is a bit like a mini-version of a Jagdtiger or Elefant.
Its post like this is where I find it sad to see. Like really. We are taking about buffing a tank, yet you go off talking about "axis players cant" that is not productive at all. Keep in mind, I had a vet 3 stug in that last game we played, and it went from full health to no health in 2 seconds. Probably explains why you don't see much mediums...
Nerf tulip. Less damage or make it only fire one rocket but cost less for the same cooldown.
Increase rate of fire, so it's slightly slower than Jackson (0.5 or 1 second slower)
Decrease shot damage to 160
Increase penetration a fair bit
Basically, the Jackson and Firefly will be complementary TDs for different tasks, with the Jackson having better damage but lower penetration. The Jackson is better at hitting Mediums, while the Firefly is better at hitting heavies. The Firefly will also have more health and better armor, which along with (nerfed) tulips justifies its higher cost despite having worse DPS against mediums. This would also be "more realistic" in some sense, with the FF's 17 pounder being more effective at armor penetration, particularly with APDS, but using a smaller calibre shell (thus less damage per shot).
That is about what I had in mind. The Firefly as a long-range sniper of sorts with only decent but consistent DPS, while the Jackson is more of a flanker that deals absurd amounts of damage in the right situation. No need for role overlaps. And anyway the Comet fits the medium-range flanker niche for brits already.
Ironically the Firefly now is almost best used as a flanker, to ensure the expensive Tulip actually hits its target. Using it at max rnge runs the risk of the tank moving.
I see two problems with the Firefly as an alpha strike unit argument.
The first is that I can't think of any other unit that outright requires a hefty munitions spend at every engagement to do its job. One off munitions upgrades, sure - but the alpha damage from the Firefly requires 100 muni at every encounter and often that simply isn't possible.
The second is a more vague historical argument - but the Firefly was used for its gun, not because they mounted rockets on a few of them. A tank's primary armament should be what you build it for, and in this area the Firefly isn't that impressive.
- The first i can't think of any other unit that can one shot a medium with a 100 ammo investment. If you think that 100 ammo is not worth 300+ MP and 100+ Fuel you are just ... wrong.
Seems that you want all tank to do exactly the same, much flavor, much unique, much wow.
Nerf tulip. Less damage or make it only fire one rocket but cost less for the same cooldown.
Increase rate of fire, so it's slightly slower than Jackson (0.5 or 1 second slower)
Decrease shot damage to 160
Increase penetration a fair bit
Hehe nice, you transformed the Firefly in a Cromwell with little more range, that can't hurt infantry, but can sometimes launch a rocket, much flavor, much wow
Hehe nice, you transformed the Firefly in a Cromwell with little more range, that can't hurt infantry, but can sometimes launch a rocket, much flavor, much wow
Um what.
It would be a Cromwell with less speed, substantially more penetration, a slower ROF, increased range, with less AI performance, which can launch rockets. In fact it wouldn't be like a Cromwell at all, except in that it's a tank.
The FF is a bit crap but occasionally devastating with the Tulips, and I'd like to remove it's ridiculous alpha strike while making it more usable in normal circumstances. To do that it needs to be able to damage more consistently (i.e. higher ROF than current + more penetration) but not do crazy damage (doesn't do 200 per shot, can't suddenly do 300+ damage with a rocket strike).
Its post like this is where I find it sad to see. Like really. We are taking about buffing a tank, yet you go off talking about "axis players cant" that is not productive at all. Keep in mind, I had a vet 3 stug in that last game we played, and it went from full health to no health in 2 seconds. Probably explains why you don't see much mediums...
I was just pointing out that the Firefly is a useful tool and not underpowered at all. Yes, it might need some adjustments ... maybe, maybe it is underperforming, but I'd rather focus on nerfing OP units instead of buffing other units to counter the imbalance.
Oh, and your Stug (not even a real medium tank) died so fast because every AT unit we had focused it... including 2 Jacksons of mine.
In general I prefer Comet over Firefly, but the Firefly can do a better job in certain situations. Sure, its no all-rounder, but that doesnt make it bad.
- The first i can't think of any other unit that can one shot a medium with a 100 ammo investment. If you think that 100 ammo is not worth 300+ MP and 100+ Fuel you are just ... wrong.
Seems that you want all tank to do exactly the same, much flavor, much unique, much wow.
- Historical argument ? Why ?
In case you hadn't noticed, the game is at least loosely based on the events of 1939-1945. You might want to look it up.
But since you've missed my point entirely anyway, let me rephrase it for you. I was pointing out that if you say the value of the firefly is primarily in its alpha strike, then it's the only unit in the game that requires munitions at every encounter to do its primary job. Yes its powerful enough to one shot a stationary medium. Plenty of units kill mediums without spending munitions.
You can ignore that I said historical if you want - the point stands that the tank exists because of its (currently lackluster) main gun and not the tulips attached to it. Or if you want it in game terms the value of the tank should be in the 440/155 part (you know, the most expensive dedicated TD in the game short of an Elefant/Jagdtiger) and not the 50+100 per shot munitions part - bringing it in line with how every other unit in the game works.
At no point did I say I wanted all tanks to do the same thing, so please take your strawman and shove it elsewhere.
wasn't really sure What I thought of Fireflies until this game.
Firefly is definitely fine in 3v3+. Unique and fun, too.
That video is a great example of how to use a Firefly:
If you want to unlock the Firefly's potential to the fullest remember the following:
- Tulips can travel through shotblockers; use them how you would use a pak43
- Tulips explode when they reach the maximum distance, which you can use to neutralize pak43 if you are absolutely desperate
- Brits already have a doctrinal ability to increase units' ROF; it's called command vehicle
I also used to think that Firefly was terrible. THis is because, just like everyone else in this thread, I was trying to use it as a Jackson. However, for all the reasons that Jadame has already explained in this thread:
- Brits don't need a Jackson; you can use Comet to fill in that role to some degree
- In teamgames, Allies don't need another Jackson (USF is there for that)
- Again, in teamgames, Allies need a way to gun down serious threats: exposed command tanks, Elephants, JTs and JPIVs. The Firefly is the only allied unit/ability that can fulfill that role.
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