Sherman Firefly

As we have said time and time again, a rate of fire buff in exchange for a Tulips nerf would make it less gimicky with a more consistent performance.

I think the only buff it needs is a faster turret rotation, there's no reason for it to be that slow, especially when it already has such a low rate of fire.

Keep health
Keep armour
Decrease tulips damage/price
Increase ROF

Keeping slow turret traverse, but having tulips would distinguish it from a jackson, with obvious other reasons...

You guys seriously should play first Warcraft, it ideally fulfills your expectations with all units being mirrored with different models and assigned to defined roles. I mean, it very hard to confuse swordsman with an archer there.

You failed to understand whole FF concept. FF is not BAD. It DIFFERENT. FF is not made to FIGHT tanks, it made to BURST/FINISH them with help of rockets. And it very good at that, doubly so with a bit of team play (mark target, anyone?)

And since FF is SITUATIONAL unit which only COMPLEMENTS brit AT (unlike Jackson which ami simply need to survive in late game with their bad at guns and limited mines), it perfectly fine.

Want hight-DPS good-overall mobile TD? Play USF.

Want heavy specialized TD, which could lose or win you game depending on situation and its usage? Play UKF.

You guys seriously should play first Warcraft, it ideally fulfills your expectations with all units being mirrored with different models and assigned to defined roles. I mean, it very hard to confuse swordsman with an archer there.

You failed to understand whole FF concept. FF is not BAD. It DIFFERENT. FF is not made to FIGHT tanks, it made to BURST/FINISH them with help of rockets. And it very good at that, doubly so with a bit of team play (mark target, anyone?)

And since FF is SITUATIONAL unit which only COMPLEMENTS brit AT (unlike Jackson which ami simply need to survive in late game with their bad at guns and limited mines), it perfectly fine.

Want hight-DPS good-overall mobile TD? Play USF.

Want heavy specialized TD, which could lose or win you game depending on situation and its usage? Play UKF.

100% this.

I dont get why everyone suddenly wants each faction to have units that perform exactly the same. The firefly is not and will never be a heavy hitting flanking tank destroyer like a Jackson or a wolverine. The firefly is powerful in its own way and plays uniquely, its like an elefant-lite with its weaknesses and strengths.

^^ Pretty much the same thoughts as the two previous posts. Firefly is fine and unqiue. Meant to snipe enemy tanks and/or finish them off. Not like Brits aren't lacking in anti-tank either.

Because a unit shouldn't need 100+ worth of munitions to be good. Take away the tulips and you are left with a bad tank.

I said during the alpha of brits and i will say it till relic fix it


THE FIREFLY SHOULD NOT RELY ON TULIPS TO KILL


drop the reload to 6 sec
Tulips cost 125 muni, do only 100 dmg and do the crit on the stuart "block vision", shoot only one tulip per activation (for 125 mun you get 2 free tulip shot, and when there is no more tulips, you rebuy them)

100% this.

I dont get why everyone suddenly wants each faction to have units that perform exactly the same. The firefly is not and will never be a heavy hitting flanking tank destroyer like a Jackson or a wolverine. The firefly is powerful in its own way and plays uniquely, its like an elefant-lite with its weaknesses and strengths.

As OP, I never compared it to the Jackson or even mentioned it. What I'm trying to figure out is why this unit is never seen. Why is it in the grey area... as my own opinion...

Anybody saying Firefly is bad clearly hasn't had vet 3 one.

Firefly & Jackson both do 200 dmg.

Jackson does 240 with AP rounds, Firefly does 280 on vet 3. Tulip Rockets do 240 each. Check the game files if you don't believe me.

tell me your joking,200 damage for the firefly..........

The main problem with the Firefly is that it is a terrible unit for its price without Tulips or veterancy.

Given the two-minute recharge on the Tulips and the possibility of the Firefly being circled into oblivion before it can vet, nerfing the Tulips and veterancy as well as buffing the base unit would make it less annoying, both to use and fight.

I have two suggestions for this:

The Jackson suggestion:

- Reload time reduced from 10 to 8
- Tulip Rocket damage reduced from 240 to 160
- Tulip Rocket firing cost reduced from 100 to 75
- Tulip Rocket recharge time reduced from 120 to 90
- Vet 3 damage bonus reduced from 80 to 40 (Total vet 3 damage from 280 to 240)

These changes would prevent the Firefly from killing medium tanks before a player can react but would also make missing with Tulips or the main gun less punishing. The veterancy changes make the Firefly less ridiculous at vet 3 without removing the damage bonus entirely.


The Elefant Suggestion:

- Main gun damage increased from 200 to 240
- Tulip Rocket damage reduced from 240 to 160
- Tulip Rocket firing cost reduced from 100 to 75
- Tulip Rocket recharge time reduced from 120 to 90
- Vet 2 reload time multiplier (0.75) removed (Reload at vet 2 from 7.5 seconds to 10 seconds)
- Vet 2 damage bonus of 40 added (Total vet 2 damage from 200 to 280)
- Vet 3 damage bonus reduced from 80 to 40 (Total vet 3 damage from 280 to 320)

These changes would make the Firefly a long-range tank sniper while still preventing the Firefly from insta-killing medium tanks before vet 3.


Both suggestions would make the Firefly better without Tulips and veterancy while reducing the power of a vet 3 Firefly. Which type of Firefly would you prefer and what do you think about the numbers?

I like the Firefly

it will lose 1v1 against almost every tank but if you support it and use it very defensively it can deal a great punch.

I like the Firefly

it will lose 1v1 against almost every tank but if you support it and use it very defensively it can deal a great punch.

the firefly is overpriced, but it's still a decent unit.

Tank destroyers typically have a major weakness that leave them vulnerable unsupported. The jackson is fragile, the su-85(jpz4,stug) lack a turret, and the Firefly have really low dps.

that said, if the firefly is going to require constant babysitting, it should not cost 440mp 155fuel.

You guys seriously should play first Warcraft, it ideally fulfills your expectations with all units being mirrored with different models and assigned to defined roles. I mean, it very hard to confuse swordsman with an archer there.

You failed to understand whole FF concept. FF is not BAD. It DIFFERENT. FF is not made to FIGHT tanks, it made to BURST/FINISH them with help of rockets. And it very good at that, doubly so with a bit of team play (mark target, anyone?)

And since FF is SITUATIONAL unit which only COMPLEMENTS brit AT (unlike Jackson which ami simply need to survive in late game with their bad at guns and limited mines), it perfectly fine.

Want hight-DPS good-overall mobile TD? Play USF.

Want heavy specialized TD, which could lose or win you game depending on situation and its usage? Play UKF.

100% this.

I dont get why everyone suddenly wants each faction to have units that perform exactly the same. The firefly is not and will never be a heavy hitting flanking tank destroyer like a Jackson or a wolverine. The firefly is powerful in its own way and plays uniquely, its like an elefant-lite with its weaknesses and strengths.

No one likes facing TD with the ability to one shot tanks. Yet, that ability to one-shot tank is the only justification for the firefly's impractically high price.

The Firefly is not cost efficient for a 1v1. It's basically a 4v4 unit when you're likely going to have an excess of resources to burn.

I don't think the firefly need to be stronger, just cheaper. I like how the Firefly handle currently. It's distinctly different from the Jackson and the su-85 and still serve the role of TD pretty well.

I disagree with the notion to buff the Firefly directly, but I still think it need a price decrease.

Nerf the tulip so the axis doesn't need to worry about losing Tanks to the firefly's alpha strike, then decrease the price of the firefly so the british can get it in a 1v1.

The Firefly is not cost efficient for a 1v1. It's basically a 4v4 unit when you're likely going to have an excess of resources to burn.

I don't think the firefly need to be stronger, just cheaper. I like how the Firefly handle currently. It's distinctly different from the Jackson and the su-85 and still serve the role of TD pretty well.

Nerf the tulip so the axis doesn't need to worry about losing Tanks to the firefly's alpha strike, then decrease the price of the firefly so the british can get it in a 1v1.

And since FF is SITUATIONAL unit which only COMPLEMENTS brit AT.

Stop it, FF is not intended to be useful in every matchup on every map and in every situation.

No one likes facing TD with the ability to one shot tanks. Yet, that ability to one-shot tank is the only justification for the firefly's impractically high price.

Speak for youself. Jt, elefant and pak43 were in game forever as well as pak walls. If you lost your tank to FF its not because "omg op/bad design nerf plx" its because you were outsmarted and outplayed.

FF offers counters to threats allied armies struggle to counters such as 17 target-size predator-cloak jp4 and blitz-away from everything panthers. If you take away FF ability to burst tanks in exchange for DPS increase/cost decrease, it would not become useful because you imagine it should, but directly opposite.

Besides there is zero reason brits with their beefy tanks should have jackson clone. Especially in 1v1.

I see two problems with the Firefly as an alpha strike unit argument.

The first is that I can't think of any other unit that outright requires a hefty munitions spend at every engagement to do its job. One off munitions upgrades, sure - but the alpha damage from the Firefly requires 100 muni at every encounter and often that simply isn't possible.

The second is a more vague historical argument - but the Firefly was used for its gun, not because they mounted rockets on a few of them. A tank's primary armament should be what you build it for, and in this area the Firefly isn't that impressive.

Two fireflies stop almost anything. I think they preform very well. It would be nice for faster reload but with VET, maybe bringing reload down to 5-6 at vet3? idk the exact stats. This vehicle is a sniper tank, not a brawler. You wont be chasing or really finishing off any tanks with it. But you will lock down a zone with these.

Two can handle almost anything expect jagdtiger and elefant. You need to use rockets against those.

Two fireflies vs two JP4s: gg wp
Two fireflies vs JT or Elefant, no way u can flank/kill that even with Rockets unless ur opponent is a retard (&and get away with any of ur fireflies considering how much hp they have)

I would say it would be fine if it had a better movement performance and reload, and I would be totally happy if they would even totally removed the tulips from the game

I said during the alpha of brits and i will say it till relic fix it


THE FIREFLY SHOULD NOT RELY ON TULIPS TO KILL


drop the reload to 6 sec
Tulips cost 125 muni, do only 100 dmg and do the crit on the stuart "block vision", shoot only one tulip per activation (for 125 mun you get 2 free tulip shot, and when there is no more tulips, you rebuy them)

I wholeheartedly agree with this idea, currently Firefly without Tulip is like an overpriced Jackson.

100% this.

I dont get why everyone suddenly wants each faction to have units that perform exactly the same. The firefly is not and will never be a heavy hitting flanking tank destroyer like a Jackson or a wolverine. The firefly is powerful in its own way and plays uniquely, its like an elefant-lite with its weaknesses and strengths.

It can keep this role without having to rely on Tulips to do good damage. This isn't a zero sum game. I haven't seen anyone demanding it be turned into a Jackson, the upgrade should be a situational damage boost but not the entire point of the unit.

There's a reason you see far more Comets (in my experience). Tank destroyers that are only really useful when you have 100 ammo stockpiled are tank destroyers that cannot always do their job right, and thus inefficient.

hum.... wrong gun mantlet(shield) model, plz fix, thank you toooo much !!!!

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