Calliopes

Why?

This game isn't fun when people turtle and build sim cities (admittedly, mainly a big team game issue) and it's less fun when people blob. Long range indirect punishes (and is the most effective hard counter to) this sort of play. It encourages smart infantry movement, aggressive play, and risk taking that makes the game a hellvua lot more fun than sitting your Elefant + Jagdtiger combo amidst a sea of bunkers and Panthers.

Idk if you mainly play Ostheer, but obviously that faction has some of the best defensive options in the game w/ MG42 bunkers, Pak-43s, S-Mine fields, Tellers, etc. Throw in a OKW Flak HQ and you have a position that is almost unassailable. There's need to be a counter to this and that's your Calliope, Walking Stuka, PWerfer, and Katy.

The rocket artillery is part of COH 2's gameplay. You'll punish with it and get punished by it plenty of times. Nothing wrong with it.

Now with all that said, the Calliope barrage is pretty devastating. I wouldn't object to it being a bit louder when it fires so Axis players have a better chance to react.

I had no bunkers, no pak43s, i had laid down a teller and S minefield. Had 1 pak 40 2 mortars 3 lmgs 2 mg43s pios and a scout car. I was hardly camping. The left side of the map where i was focusing was switching between myself and the USFs player right up until his 1 calliope barrage.

I wish that artillery was only used for cases like the ones you described.

This is precisely the kind of hyperbolic post that I presume is the reason for Relic being so confused about how to balance their game.

If you want to take what im saying as a hyperbole be my guess. I was just describing what happened to me and wishing for it to change.

The only time I will complain about calliopes is when pwerfer gets nerfed while calliope remains the same because "It's not suppressing units so it's fine if it wipes support teams."

Why?

This game isn't fun when people turtle and build sim cities (admittedly, mainly a big team game issue) and it's less fun when people blob. Long range indirect punishes (and is the most effective hard counter to) this sort of play. It encourages smart infantry movement, aggressive play, and risk taking that makes the game a hellvua lot more fun than sitting your Elefant + Jagdtiger combo amidst a sea of bunkers and Panthers.

Idk if you mainly play Ostheer, but obviously that faction has some of the best defensive options in the game w/ MG42 bunkers, Pak-43s, S-Mine fields, Tellers, etc. Throw in a OKW Flak HQ and you have a position that is almost unassailable. There's need to be a counter to this and that's your Calliope, Walking Stuka, PWerfer, and Katy.

The rocket artillery is part of COH 2's gameplay. You'll punish with it and get punished by it plenty of times. Nothing wrong with it.

Now with all that said, the Calliope barrage is pretty devastating. I wouldn't object to it being a bit louder when it fires so Axis players have a better chance to react.

Wow, somewhat rational thinking. I would concur on keeping the calliope closer to what it was in Vcoh, louder, yet still devastating, and able to break a stalemate/turtle scrub.

They are fine, fuel cost justifies their armour and ability, tho they need to be louder. I can never hear them

Oh and it's doctrinal...

Your main problem is Crossing in the Woods.

Your main problem is Crossing in the Woods.

^
A map which the author said it was not designed with 2v2 in mind.

Nerf them both to the ground. Or high more damage but lower AOE ---> less likely to wipe single squads but will really hurt big blobs.

Won't solve anything => Nerfing them will make Volks blob god like and USF blob Stronger.

Calliope is good in that it deters blobbing. Anti-blob is good. On the downside it is a unit-deleting tool. If you're a second late retreating, your unit is gone and with it being so quiet it's easy to miss. Attrition of vetted squads is a powerful ability that comes too easily to the Calli.


But the game needs blob counters so it has to stay. Perhaps lower damage? Or wider spread? So it still hurts when it hits a blob but won't auto-wipe a couple of units.


Also, not sure that a unit with high damage + wide AOE + long range + mobility+ tank health + tank armour is a good idea. The argument "but it is expensive" is wrong because if there was a nuclear bomb that cost 600 fuel and 2000 MP that auto-wins the game, it would still spoil balance despite being expensive.

Katyusha, Pwerfer, StukaZF all die in 1 or 2 shots. Soviet howitzers have durability but no mobility. Calli has everything and can't be flanked and killed quickly like other mobile arty. I think all mobile arty should have low health and armour to offset their damage output.

If you want to take what im saying as a hyperbole be my guess. I was just describing what happened to me and wishing for it to change.

"Nerf them both to the ground"

"Nerf them both to the ground"

"Nerf them both to the ground"

That is not constructive criticism.

Relic, anti blob most expensive, doctrinal arty in game killed my blob, nurf plox!

Seriously...

I miss the times of GR, where people were more active in strategy section then balance section.

You dont need brain cells for balance section . In strategy sections it is a bit different ...

"Nerf them both to the ground"

"Nerf them both to the ground"

"Nerf them both to the ground"

That is not constructive criticism.

Ok is the fact that one vet 0 calliope barrage killed 3 vet 3 lmg grens constructive enough for you? Im saying that if you wont have calliopes nerfed until pwerfers are nerfed then nerf them both. Its disgusting watching the game be decided in 3 seconds.

Ok is the fact that one vet 0 calliope barrage killed 3 vet 3 lmg grens constructive enough for you? Im saying that if you wont have calliopes nerfed until pwerfers are nerfed then nerf them both. Its disgusting watching the game be decided in 3 seconds.

Why does veterancy even matter. No explosive weapon cares about veterency, except for maybe RE.

Perhaps it shows the importance the units were to the army build and how they were all wiped with little warning.

The problem is not that the Callie/Painwerfer rek blobs, it's that they're a two-click squad whiteout tool. Unless you are literally in bed with the RNG god(esse)s, both of these units' barrages will wipe any squad you own off the face of the earth.

The argument that the Painwerfer is fragile and comes in T4, thus it should be able to simply delete whatever it hits, is stupid. You can't even field something comparable unless you field the Callie. Now that the Krapyusha doesn't have its laser-guided barrage, it simply doesn't measure up to either the Painwerfer or Callie in raw destructive power (despite, iirc, equal expense to the former and despite also being locked behind a T4 that is now impossible to skip to, barring the T1/T2 choice).

I'd up the Callie's default range by maybe 25, slap ~2.5º higher scatter on it, and give it a continuous barrage, not this silly burst rocket nonsense. You can use the tank-like HP to drive it into sword-hitting range or hang back and hope a lucky rocket lands on your intended target. The large(r) scatter value would also help it put the hurt on larger blobs.

Calliope is good in that it deters blobbing. Anti-blob is good. On the downside it is a unit-deleting tool. If you're a second late retreating, your unit is gone and with it being so quiet it's easy to miss. Attrition of vetted squads is a powerful ability that comes too easily to the Calli.


But the game needs blob counters so it has to stay. Perhaps lower damage? Or wider spread? So it still hurts when it hits a blob but won't auto-wipe a couple of units.


Also, not sure that a unit with high damage + wide AOE + long range + mobility+ tank health + tank armour is a good idea. The argument "but it is expensive" is wrong because if there was a nuclear bomb that cost 600 fuel and 2000 MP that auto-wins the game, it would still spoil balance despite being expensive.

Katyusha, Pwerfer, StukaZF all die in 1 or 2 shots. Soviet howitzers have durability but no mobility. Calli has everything and can't be flanked and killed quickly like other mobile arty. I think all mobile arty should have low health and armour to offset their damage output.

Usf cannot lay defensive mines. It needs higher survivability.

How about this:
Since the Stuka zu Fuss came to exist I can't use setup teams. They die all together with a single 'barrage'.

Apparently this isnt the first time Calliope was misspelled in the CoH world...

What, you didn't know Callopie rockets come from Callopian tubes?

How about this:
Since the Stuka zu Fuss came to exist I can't use setup teams. They die all together with a single 'barrage'.

Yeah the stuka does negate all support weapon play with a certainty other artillery lacks.