Weak Ostwind

Yes, you usually place your team weapons in the open without cover in front of your opponent tanks.

Yes Because allies cannot break throw superior Axis front line i need to give gifts when playing axis.

killing squad 8-4 seconds slower than centuar = shitty offense? that's barely one reload circle for a panther.

Go test it. I also posted a video. Its more than 4-8 seconds. Way more. Even worse when moving (kiting). The only remedy is that it is quicker than the centaur (btw how does it compare to the cromwell? Or p4 vs cromwell?). If that is so great.. how about we take away centaur main gun and instead give it 8 or 9 topspeed. Since mobility is survivability like you said, we can also cut is hp and armor in half. Sounds like a great unit, right? :-)

Ostwind has one main role and two minor roles. Main role is kill infantry. It's fairly bad at that. Two other roles are AA and maybe light vehicles. It's more or less decent but still not great at that.

Go test it. I also posted a video. Its more than 4-8 seconds. Way more. Even worse when moving (kiting). The only remedy is that it is quicker than the centaur (btw how does it compare to the cromwell? Or p4 vs cromwell?). If that is so great.. how about we take away centaur main gun and instead give it 8 or 9 topspeed. Since mobility is survivability like you said, we can also cut is hp and armor in half. Sounds like a great unit, right? :-)

Ostwind has one main role and two minor roles. Main role is kill infantry. It's fairly bad at that. Two other roles are AA and maybe light vehicles. It's more or less decent but still not great at that.

I'm sure the axis would love to face a 9 speed tank with crush. It would probably kill infantry faster than anything else.

https://youtu.be/RvRVHcvWXx4

really, even in this video it's 14 seconds, and those 14 second were oddly spent trying to kill the last two guy in the squad.

I'm sure the axis would love to face a 9 speed tank with crush. It would probably kill infantry faster than anything else.

https://youtu.be/RvRVHcvWXx4

really, even in this video it's 14 seconds, and those 14 second were oddly spent trying to kill the last two guy in the squad.

yep... and the centaur was facing a 6 man squad, something it will NEVER face. and the centaur was at a disadvantage because he was farther away from what he was shooting. so, the ostwind would take roughly TWICE AS LONG. making it HALF AS EFFECTIVE as a unit that most brit players deem "useless". again, the ostwind is already fairly weak when you look at it alone. if you compare it with other units, it's almost a joke. saying the ostwind is fine and centaur is useless makes the person saying it look like one.

yep... and the centaur was facing a 6 man squad, something it will NEVER face.

Prosttruppen and Panzerfusiliers do, in fact, exist.

Prosttruppen and Panzerfusiliers do, in fact, exist.

alright, you got me... forgot about those two... shame on me :-(

still, no mainline infantry has 6 dudes.

conscript is the only mainline infantry with 6 men, and they are pretty much meatshield for the soviet.

The USF and British both have 5 men squad as their line infantry.

conscript is the only mainline infantry with 6 men, and they are pretty much meatshield for the soviet.

The USF and British both have 5 men squad as their line infantry.

so what about the ostwind still being about half as effective as the centaur and the centaur being useless?

well ostwind come later than centaur,
so when centaur arrives OH prob usually have 1 pak, OKW prob 1 AT and 1-2 shrek, and facing 222, puma, p2, which all ate by centaur like snack

when ostwind arrives usually face T34, SU76, sherman, comwell which all ate ostwind like food <---This is pretty much the reason alot ppl don't get ostwind.

centaur shreds all german light armor's like knife and butter. while ostwind have trouble deal with Stuart and AEC, increase ostwind pen so it can easily force off those 2 units.

also when they first arrive they are facing different blob size, centaur face max 4-6 sq (depend on weapon team he have), ostwind (facing 5-8sq and possible med armor) on the field since ostwind kills slower, it need on the run most time.

for example centaur face 3 sq VG with shreks, usually come out winner as it will kill fast enough to force 3 sq vg to retreat, while Ostwind will most likely run from 3 sq rifles with zooks as it kill slower.

so because of arrival time difference and quite few factors centuar is much more effective than Ostwind

i actually interest to see centuar and ostwind 1v1 who will be the winner, prob centuar though.

Ostwind isn't as bad as people say it is, it's just situational, you can't make it every game as you can't make a centaur either

Of course centaur does the killing thing better but has far worse mobility, this is a big thing since when it gets hit with an faust it has no chance of surviving because paks can chase it with infantry to give vision

Two different units that are better at other things, nothing needs to be changed about these units, or if you want the ostwind to kill as well as the centaur does, then nerf the centaur to prevent powerstacking

alright, you got me... forgot about those two... shame on me :-(

still, no mainline infantry has 6 dudes.

Then I guess you'll be happy to know that both, pfussies and osttruppen are pretty much meta vs brits right now and are usual sight in the match up, though some OKW players still like JLI more.

Then I guess you'll be happy to know that both, pfussies and osttruppen are pretty much meta vs brits right now and are usual sight in the match up, though some OKW players still like JLI more.

Only that this thread isnt about whats meta vs ukf. Or even about the centaur that can fight 6 men squads just as well. Its about the ostwind being weak at its main role, which coincidentally invalidates the "two different units better at other things" argument. The centaur ering better at AT would be fine, the ostwind being so crap at AI (its main role) that it is way worse than a unit that is considered "useless" by "fanboy" consensus is not.

As a big fan of Wermacht and SU, I feel that the Ostwind isn't entirely without merit at it's job. It's not consistent when it comes to the job, but it works when it does. Can't say I want it to be over-buffed as it goes to push it further into a hole that most here seem to find it in.

I voted against change, but if there were to be any buff for it,
I'd rather not see it's damage/aoe/range/accuracy improved. I hate it when they turn a unit into those instant wipe monsters. My only problem with the damn thing was how fast it exhausts it's ammo. The reload hits it at times when it could really be firing.

By proposing a longer firing time or a much shorter reload time, it does not immediately push the Ostwind into something deadly, but gives it enough edge to deter players from staying within it's range.

well ostwind come later than centaur,
so when centaur arrives OH prob usually have 1 pak, OKW prob 1 AT and 1-2 shrek, and facing 222, puma, p2, which all ate by centaur like snack

when ostwind arrives usually face T34, SU76, sherman, comwell which all ate ostwind like food <---This is pretty much the reason alot ppl don't get ostwind.

centaur shreds all german light armor's like knife and butter. while ostwind have trouble deal with Stuart and AEC, increase ostwind pen so it can easily force off those 2 units.

also when they first arrive they are facing different blob size, centaur face max 4-6 sq (depend on weapon team he have), ostwind (facing 5-8sq and possible med armor) on the field since ostwind kills slower, it need on the run most time.

for example centaur face 3 sq VG with shreks, usually come out winner as it will kill fast enough to force 3 sq vg to retreat, while Ostwind will most likely run from 3 sq rifles with zooks as it kill slower.

so because of arrival time difference and quite few factors centuar is much more effective than Ostwind

i actually interest to see centuar and ostwind 1v1 who will be the winner, prob centuar though.

I always have a StugIII by the time first Centaur is out and it is more than enough to send it to hell.

Comparison in the AA department? Where do you have to dig for % to take down a plane?

Just for the record, this Appleseed does not speak for AEF_Appleseed.

I think it could use a minor cost reduction in terms of fuel cost.

Increase accuracy and/or consistency of damage.

Well, I'm a bit surprised how this thread turned out. I expected more people to be on board with changing it, but also didn't expect all the people that wanted buffs to vote for more accuracy and damage.

The main problem with the Ostwind that I see is the incredibly long reload time leading to hugely inconsistent performance. It only has 6 shots, and if you were previously in a battle before there is a very real chance that you will be stuck with a 5.25 second reload time right at the beginning of the fight if you didn't make the thing empty all it's rounds into the ground. This is crippling to the unit, and is why I think it only needs a shorter reload to make it much better. The Centaur does not run into this problem as much because it holds so much more ammo and has a much shorter reload.