The OKW tank is easily worth this 25 fuel cost, as has already been made clear. In fact, it cost this much before with fuel limitations, its just you didn't see it directly because of way fuel was managed before the 100% income.
OKW is still extremely strong, it just a little fairer now. You are kidding yourself if you don't think huge changes, nerfs, etc. are coming down the pipeline to deal with OKW. The resource increase was just the first step in a process to reinvent the faction. Does no one remember how we rebuilt the Soviet army?
150 fuel panzer 4 increase it's penetration.
11 Dec 2015, 15:00 PM
#81
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
11 Dec 2015, 15:39 PM
#82
Posts: 721
The OKW tank is easily worth this 25 fuel cost, as has already been made clear. In fact, it cost this much before with fuel limitations, its just you didn't see it directly because of way fuel was managed before the 100% income.
Ok fine, but for whermacht as well?
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
11 Dec 2015, 16:06 PM
#83
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
Ok fine, but for whermacht as well?
Why are we talking about Wehr? Unless there is a bug the new fuel cost should only apply to OKW units.
11 Dec 2015, 16:33 PM
#84
Posts: 728
With increasing the price the tank has to be compared to the T34/85 & Ez8, comparing to them its under performing.
OKW P4:
Cost: 360 mp / 150 Fuel
Penetration: 100 / 110 / 120
Scatter: 6.4
AOE: 2.5
Reload: 5.63
Armour: 234 / 80
Health: 640
T34/85:
Cost: 380 mp / 130 Fuel
Penetration: 120 / 140 / 160
Scatter: 5.0
AOE: 2.5
Reload: 6.28
Armour: 160 / 80
Health: 800
Easy8:
Cost: 380 mp / 140 Fuel
Penetration: 155 / 165 / 200
Scatter: 5.4
AOE: 2.0
Reload: 6.43
Armour: 215 / 95
Health: 720
We see, higher scatter means the gun will miss infantry more often. While the HP means it only sustains 4 shots vs 5 on the t34/85 & ez8. Low penetration means also that it has a hard time penetrating medium tanks (calliopes included). Compared with Armour of the Easy8 there is hardly a difference, especially when you keep in mind the that the Easy8 is considered as the best medium generalist tank in game.
Again it's just stating objective stats and comparing them. OKW P4 costs more, but has worse stats.
Edited: some wrong stats
But it has better armor and faster reload that you forgot to mention. You also need to consider the armys those tanks belong to and what they need to do for the faction. USF armor is weak they need the ez8 to be able to beat p4s and it should as they have weak AT options. OST has the best AT gun in the game as well can have shreks, and okw has raketen which is effective against the ez8 and of course early shreks. p4s are fine leave them alone play the patch first to see how fast okw p4 arrives.
EDIT: also both p4's have way better AI capabilities. The e8 might get a lucky shot every once in a while but every tanks does, in general it sucks against infantry I use it all the time.
11 Dec 2015, 17:24 PM
#85
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Can you like, not defend OKW at every chance for once?
It's tiresome and biased.
Cherry picking dude. At least I play both fractions.
Also concerning OKW bias:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/43311/kv1-kv2-are-completely-outclassed-by-british-tanks
| !I don't get why the T70 still has only 320 hp, although it comes latest, but that has nothing to do with the luchs or stuart. |
| ! The main issue right now is the popcap bug - while giving OKW an advantage in 1vs1 in turns into a huge asset in 2vs2 and becomes utterly broken in 3vs3+: When your core army takes less popcap that means you can field more infantry, allows more tanks in late game and generally never struggle to accumulate enough MP for tanks in late game. As an allied player that means you will have to deal with more units while having less. Now multiply this with 4 and you will face an enemy you can not beat. |
And thats just recently. The problem here is when you defend axis factions here people like you start to tunnel vision. OKW was long time in a bad spot, to a point nobody would pick them in tourneys, this maybe has changed now, but I don't like to return to this state, while many players and it seems you included grow accustomed to the fact okw takes less effort to beat. In the a perfect coh2 every faction is potent and fearsome. Right now the vanilla factions seriously lack behind.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
11 Dec 2015, 17:39 PM
#86
Posts: 195 | Subs: 2
Give Ostheer P4 some love. it needs it more and harder than OKW P4.
+1 :,)
11 Dec 2015, 17:41 PM
#87
Posts: 4928
Comparing them to doctrinal units is silly. I agree with Dusty.
Being a "doctrinal unit" doesn't mean shit. I don't see the Ostheer Puma outperforming the OKW Puma, or the M4C outperforming the Panzer IV, or the MG 34 outperforming... anything.
Doctrine units open up new options, it doesn't mean it's automatically supposed to be better than stock units. It isn't.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
11 Dec 2015, 17:57 PM
#88
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
No it shouldn't be buffed. Anything in current okw can't be buffed.
11 Dec 2015, 19:38 PM
#89
Posts: 174
th P4 has absurdly better armor than other mediums, it does not need a gun buff as well.
11 Dec 2015, 19:56 PM
#90
Posts: 380
E8 and t3485 are in docs, so don't compare stack units with doc units that must be better. On topic, p4 is fine
11 Dec 2015, 20:02 PM
#91
Posts: 4928
E8 and t3485 are in docs, so don't compare stack units with doc units that must be better. On topic, p4 is fine
Literally just went over this.
Being a "doctrinal unit" doesn't mean shit. I don't see the Ostheer Puma outperforming the OKW Puma, or the M4C outperforming the Panzer IV, or the MG 34 outperforming... anything.
Doctrine units open up new options, it doesn't mean it's automatically supposed to be better than stock units. It isn't.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
11 Dec 2015, 20:34 PM
#92
Posts: 2561
Yeah but if you don't consider the T34/85 and easy 8 it's fine. So maybe the problem isn't the P4.
11 Dec 2015, 22:04 PM
#93
Posts: 1096
While the pz4 is now 150 fuel it is the most expensive medium tank, although it's ass gets some hard whooping by a much cheaper Ez8 and T34/85. I suggest to make it's penetration to 150/140/130.
not really how a nerf works, mate XD
11 Dec 2015, 23:03 PM
#94
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Remember kids, most people saying the P4's is fine at 150 fuel here also said that the Churchill is fine at 150 fuel :^)
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
12 Dec 2015, 00:52 AM
#95
Posts: 174
Remember kids, most people saying the P4's is fine at 150 fuel here also said that the Churchill is fine at 150 fuel :^)
P4 has more armor and speed than the church
12 Dec 2015, 00:56 AM
#96
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
P4 has more armor and speed than the church
Since when 240 armour (churchill) is better than 234 (okw p4)? Also kv1 has more armour, more hp and a better gun and still costs less than the p4. At least this thread showed who doesn't care for objective stats.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
12 Dec 2015, 00:58 AM
#97
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Since when 240 armour (churchill) is better than 234 (okw p4)? Also kv1 has more armour, more hp and a better gun and still costs less than the p4. At least this thread showed who doesn't care for objective stats.
Didn't the KV-1 use a 76's gun?
12 Dec 2015, 00:58 AM
#98
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedPretty sure that better speed isn't gonna help you vs a tank with more penetration, more armor, and 2.5 times higher health pool.
12 Dec 2015, 01:05 AM
#99
Posts: 1930
how about not giving the OKW the best heavy tank(KT), the best anti-infantry light tank (pz2), the best light tank hunter (puma), the best tank destroyer(jpz4), the best tank hunter(panther), and the best medium tank(pz4) as well?
the okw pz4 j should have gotten a nerf instead of a price increase.
the okw pz4 j should have gotten a nerf instead of a price increase.
12 Dec 2015, 01:25 AM
#100
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
how about not giving the OKW the best heavy tank(KT), the best anti-infantry light tank (pz2), the best light tank hunter (puma), the best tank destroyer(jpz4), the best tank hunter(panther), and the best medium tank(pz4) as well?
the okw pz4 j should have gotten a nerf instead of a price increase.
How about pricing units according to their performance? This thread is not about making it the best medium tank, its just about increasing its pen so it won't bounce shots against units that are cheaper hence having a chance to win against unit that have the same role, but destroy the p4 in a 1vs1.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
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