So... Why Does OKW Have P4? (Forgotten Topic)

?NorthWeapon:Remove Panzer IV-J from Tech and add it back to Doctrine?

• OKW's theme is specialized units
  
• Panzer IV-J is not specialized
  
• Panzer IV is symbolic to Ostheer
  
• Ostheer's main perk (Tier 3) is rendered useless
  
• Removes all weaknesses of OKW (in addition to 100% resources)
  
• A faction deprived of weaknesses is an unbalanced faction
  
• Doctrinal Panzer IV-J was a genius idea especially with skirts & commander
  
• Make the Panzer IV-J behave differently (maybe less AI, more AT, or vice versa)
  
• OST Panzer IV should have its old skin back to distinguish from Panzer IV-J
  

OKW is taking a nasty dump on Ostheer right now while Ostheer is on the sidelines going "I am crai." For the sake of its survival, we must replace or remove the Panzer IV-J from the non-doctrinal tech tree.

!Replace with Sturmtiger, Ostwind, Pak43, Sturmoffizier, or JagdtigerNorthWeapon

Well, I am not an active player so my opinion doesn't really matter since I have these 'hicups' of game times.

It's either that the people playing the OKW don't like the way the faction is set up or that the OKW is the only faction whose generalist medium tank doesn't exist. In my opinion, those with little patience just want to add a bit more spice to their five star army of Volksgrenadiers...

...Man, it's so strange that the Sturmtiger used to be where the Panzer IV is present. I really feel old now that I think about it.

well, this is obvious but p4 was added when okw felt they had too many penalties which was lack of generalist med tank.

but now with 100% income, it's all mangled up.

too many benefits and compensations given to OKW were not considered when OKW got 100% income.


as to remove? not sure.

well, this is obvious but p4 was added when okw felt they had too many penalties which was lack of generalist med tank.

but now with 100% income, it's all mangled up.

too many benefits and compensations given to OKW were not considered when OKW got 100% income.


as to remove? not sure.

I meant make it doctrinal

agree can back to strumtiger (with more fuel built and limit 1)
and PZ4 back to Elite Armor unit like T-34/85 and Easy8

I miss buildable sturmtiger.

Relic homogenizing factions because the community sucks has been the worst part of the game. The initial designs for all the factions were their best designs, and the more they get meddled with post-release the more generic they get.

That's largely why I've mainly been playing Brits lately. Gotta enjoy them before they get hit with the homo-stick.

IT QWAS CHANGED BECAUSE THE FORUM WHINERS WHINED FOR NOT HAVING p4 SO STOP WHINING!

That's largely why I've mainly been playing Brits lately. Gotta enjoy them before they get hit with the homo-stick.

Can't tell if gay joke or accident

OKW's theme is specialized units

Soviets theme was only AI units, Ostheers theme was only AT units, that was changed ages ago. Themes only last until the developers change them because they aren't working.

Remember that without the P4, OKW was only encouraged to blob Panzerschrecks until they could spam Panthers. The P4 changed OKW's metagame for the better, more so than any change they've received before or after. Panzerschrecks and Panthers are already spammed as much as possible, taking away the P4 just leaves that as the only strategy. And I'd hate to see that encouraged again.

Build able storms every game, without the penalties I don't see this working out so hot balance wise.

I haven't seen a Sturmtiger fielded in about a year by a "human" player.

Soviets theme was only AI units, Ostheers theme was only AT units, that was changed ages ago. Themes only last until the developers change them because they aren't working.

Remember that without the P4, OKW was only encouraged to blob Panzerschrecks until they could spam Panthers. The P4 changed OKW's metagame for the better, more so than any change they've received before or after. Panzerschrecks and Panthers are already spammed as much as possible, taking away the P4 just leaves that as the only strategy. And I'd hate to see that encouraged again.

Dear god, the memories.
(Shudders at the flashbacks of OKW spamfest)

Imo they should swap the P4 with the Ostwind in the scavenge doctrine. (And increase the CP cost).

Soviets theme was only AI units, Ostheers theme was only AT units, that was changed ages ago. Themes only last until the developers change them because they aren't working.

Remember that without the P4, OKW was only encouraged to blob Panzerschrecks until they could spam Panthers. The P4 changed OKW's metagame for the better, more so than any change they've received before or after. Panzerschrecks and Panthers are already spammed as much as possible, taking away the P4 just leaves that as the only strategy. And I'd hate to see that encouraged again.

Puma Raketens Or doctrinal P4-Js! Also P4-Js come out pretty late now, almost same time as Panther; the new OKW tech changes encourage Volkshrekblob spam unfortunately.

Can't tell if gay joke or accident

I believe Dullahan meant the "homogenisation stick"

Soviets theme was only AI units, Ostheers theme was only AT units, that was changed ages ago. Themes only last until the developers change them because they aren't working.

Sov was all about cheap but large numbers of more mobile units. They couldn't fortify an area very well but were great at attacking quickly and swiftly. This is why their vehicles often can capture territory, because it allows them to retake mass amounts of territory. They had a flexible tech tree so they could surprise their opponent or react quickly. They also had a lot of unit call ins to further diversify their arsenal depending on the scenario.

Ostheer was slower and less mobile, but more powerful when in a fortified position. This is why they had stuff like hull down and better support weapons and could build all sorts of bunkers and mines. They have more rigid teching but much more powerful units. Most of their doctrines were focused on support abilities rather than unit call ins.

Both were also designed for a much faster pace game before the vCoH clowns put a stop to that. VP bleed used to be a tick every 3 seconds (slower than dawn of war 2, faster than CoH1), faster teching and higher lethality. (With coldtech existing to slow the game down a notch.) This is also why Coh1 style sandbags and tanktraps didn't exist and why buildings could be killed quite quickly.

Their themes are mostly intact, although the soviets tech tree was kicked in the balls and ostheer got unit call ins like assault grens and the puma that fuck with the intended game pacing. All the changes to the game itself by the vCoh crowd on the other hand have really taken away from the game. (I enjoyed it most at release, I just come back for the new factions until I get bored.)

Sov was all about cheap but large numbers of more mobile units. They couldn't fortify an area very well but were great at attacking quickly and swiftly. This is why their vehicles often can capture territory, because it allows them to retake mass amounts of territory. They had a flexible tech tree so they could surprise their opponent or react quickly. They also had a lot of unit call ins to further diversify their arsenal depending on the scenario.

Both were also designed for a much faster pace game before the vCoH clowns put a stop to that. VP bleed used to be a tick every 3 seconds (slower than dawn of war 2, faster than CoH1), faster teching and higher lethality. (With coldtech existing to slow the game down a notch.)

It was terribly inflexible. Getting both T1 & T2 and being caught up on tanks was only feasible with the call-in meta. T3 & 4 at once was impossible.

Are you talking about the alpha, or something? Because lethality got raised March last year and didn't get touched at all throughout the beta I played.

It was terribly inflexible. Getting both T1 & T2 and being caught up on tanks was only feasible with the call-in meta. T3 & 4 at once was impossible.

Are you talking about the alpha, or something? Because lethality got raised March last year and didn't get touched at all throughout the beta I played.

I'm talking the original beta/vanilla release. They slowed down vp's in beta though. It was more viable when early game teching costs were cheaper. But because people wanted MUH INFANTRY SKIRMISHING we got buildable sandbags, ubergarrisons and delayed tech costs. As a result damn near every high level game you see is 5-6 squads of generalist infantry sitting in green cover or houses on arnhem checkpoint and no one is smart enough to think to build a god damn mortar.


As for lethality being raised in the last year, I have no idea. (Was absent from nov 2014 to oct 2013) I'm strictly comparing CoH1 to vanilla CoH2. Vehicle lethality in particular is much different in CoH2. They die much easier than they did in CoH1.

OKW must be brought to something close to initial estate. Relic has little to do with what we have today as OKW which is not even funny to play. All the thanks should go to our fantastic comunity, filled with balance experts, which constantly cried about how op were the Obersoldaten, Panzer 2s, fallshirms, sturmpios, wurframens, and about almost all units OKW fielded. Yes, they were good units, maybe overperforming here and there, but at least you were passing through fire and hell to build them and that was a difficult thing to do.
Because of that, Relic constantly played with OKW, changing it's unit, changing the faction, changing almost everything, untill it became unrecognizable.
Even now, the faction is far from being balanced or at least ok.

Relic should not listen so much to the comunity anymore. It should patch the game more rarely and more consistenly, letting crying babies put their heads to work and adapt strategy for 3 months at least.

OKW is unrecognizable. GG comunity.

Please don't make Pz4 doctrinal again, finaly you're not forced into a Panther. Personally I prefer a Pz4 over a Panther. It didn't felt right to have a non - doctrinal Sturmtiger.