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Pop cap bugs after December patch

6 Dec 2015, 16:02 PM
#41
avatar of Contrivance

Posts: 165 | Subs: 2



Oh right, sbps. Though adding popcap cost to them? That must be new, because I don't recall that one from vCoH.


It only showed up in CoH2, but has been in there since it's release.
6 Dec 2015, 16:08 PM
#42
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

I understand that non-integer popcap values can create a mess and introduce bugs (e.g., pershing call-in). However, I don't think that the system of only allowing integer values AND keeping the popcap to 100 is sustainable, because it doesn't give you enough wiggling space to balance the value.

- An infantry model cannot cost 3 popcap (or more); 18 popcap shocks would be too much
- Thus, you are only left with popcap values of 1 and 2
- Cheap infantry (pioneers) will get a popcap value of 1
- Elite infantry will get a popcap value of 2
- What value would you assign to stock infantry?

EASY FIX

1. Increase the population cap to 200 (or 400) and scale up all the values. With a popcap of 200:
- Cheap infantry costs 2 popcap
- Stock infantry costs 3 popcap
- Elite infantry costs 4 popcap

2. If you REALLY care about displaying a popcap of 100, then do the following:

- Your internal engine will do the scaling that I mentioned internally (only use integers)
- When it comes to displaying popcap values to the UI, divide everything by 2
- Consider outputting fractions (you will only have integers, or .5 numbers coming out, nothing weird)

This is way more reasonable than what we have now (sapper popcap = ranger popcap)



That is a good idea. And easy to implement.
Also, remember how they doubled all CP requirements in order to be able to fine tune. This is a similar approach.
6 Dec 2015, 16:25 PM
#43
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

give Volks 1 pop cap for 5 models already they are struggling now.
6 Dec 2015, 16:43 PM
#44
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 615

This population crisis is really ruining the game and only exacerbating the underlying OPKW issue especially when Infantry Sections, Grenadiers, Panzergrenadiers, cost so much population and have so much MP bleed.
6 Dec 2015, 17:12 PM
#45
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 208

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Dec 2015, 16:08 PMFluffi



That is a good idea. And easy to implement.
Also, remember how they doubled all CP requirements in order to be able to fine tune. This is a similar approach.


I agree. If Relic really wants to keep the decimals, they can just multiply the player popcap and units popcap by 10, although I doubt they would do that.

Multiplying it by 2 is still good.
7 Dec 2015, 15:03 PM
#46
avatar of boc120

Posts: 245

There are several good and easily implementable ideas here. Relic, do your fixing thing!
3 of 3 Relic postsRelic 7 Dec 2015, 21:30 PM
#47
avatar of Cuddletronic
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 559 | Subs: 17

Lots to go through....

1) Pop Cap was rounded up to prevent Call in Units from not coming. Would say you have enough room (Ex. Pop Cap = 85), but you were actually over by .5
2) Added issued for the Tips and Tricks text
3) Passed Balance Items to Balance Team

Thanks
7 Dec 2015, 21:35 PM
#48
avatar of Flying Dustbin

Posts: 270 | Subs: 1

Shock troops are 12 popcap
Tank is 12 popcap

Shocks have armor
Tanks have armor

working as intended B-)
8 Dec 2015, 03:19 AM
#49
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

Lots to go through....

1) Pop Cap was rounded up to prevent Call in Units from not coming. Would say you have enough room (Ex. Pop Cap = 85), but you were actually over by .5
2) Added issued for the Tips and Tricks text
3) Passed Balance Items to Balance Team

Thanks



This is a serious issue in the game now.

Not only because it lets OKW gets many units, and (for Ex.) UKF (with 8-10 pop cap IS) gets fewer units, but the major issue is the manpower income. Because as you know at higher pop cap you receive less manpower income, and as OKW you can afford having a big army and still high manpower income and vice versa for UKF (or Soviet with 12 pop cap shock troops)

Please hotfix it ASAP cause UKF is almost unplayable due to that
8 Dec 2015, 04:12 AM
#50
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589


10 pop cap for Royal Engineers, 5 pop cap for Volks.

How... how does that happen?



When you leave the balance patch to a junior.
8 Dec 2015, 04:49 AM
#51
avatar of wafive

Posts: 36

UKF with 8 or 10 pop cap was broken right now.
I like the old ones pop cap system
8 Dec 2015, 04:58 AM
#52
avatar of Blackart

Posts: 344

Yes, old pop caps need to be reverted back.

New pop caps fix call in bugs but mess the game balance which is more important.
8 Dec 2015, 05:22 AM
#53
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

sturmpioneers cost 9 popcap is not fine...??? ( especially after those reapir speed nerfs they should be same be 6 popcap
8 Dec 2015, 07:10 AM
#54
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

sturmpioneers cost 9 popcap is not fine...??? ( especially after those reapir speed nerfs they should be same be 6 popcap


Relic said Sturm repair speed is a bug and will be fixed.
8 Dec 2015, 07:18 AM
#55
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

UKF army size is so small in this patch. Even if you have the upper hand and more resourced you get outnumbered.
8 Dec 2015, 10:45 AM
#56
avatar of wafive

Posts: 36

in this patch, i playing with WFA faction only,
OKW pop cap reduce with no more penalty income, elite infantry call-in with 8 pop cap, 12 minutes Panther or KT, and 5 pop cap volks xD:clap:
USF rifleman is fine, 7 pop cap, not 10 or 8 like other faction :)

in other way, Grenadier,Infantry Section, and Royal Engineer with 8 and 10 pop cap, and request 2 pop cap each model will worst to re-crew team weapon, cuz the re-crew team weapon pop cap is higher than build the new ones


and shocktroop with 12 pop cap is joke, while fallschirmjager is 8 xD
8 Dec 2015, 11:48 AM
#57
avatar of Captain_Frog

Posts: 248

SO how long until a hotfix? Because this is ridiculous.
8 Dec 2015, 17:42 PM
#58
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

So, the main problem with the old, much more precise and balance-able pop cap was that it didn't display the full number, so if you had 92.1 used it would display 92 and you couldn't call in sth that costs 8 even though 92+8=100.

Why didn't they just make it display the next number then, so if you had 92.1 or 92.2 or 92.3 etc. it would display 93 used? Wouldn't that prevent the unwanted effect of wrong player feedback?
8 Dec 2015, 17:44 PM
#59
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Dec 2015, 17:42 PMFluffi
So, the main problem with the old, much more precise and balance-able pop cap was that it didn't display the full number, so if you had 92.1 used it would display 92 and you couldn't call in sth that costs 8 even though 92+8=100.

Why didn't they just make it display the next number then, so if you had 92.1 or 92.2 or 92.3 etc. it would display 93 used? Wouldn't that prevent the unwanted effect of wrong player feedback?


Or just make total popcap 101 but display 100. Easy.
8 Dec 2015, 18:19 PM
#60
avatar of boc120

Posts: 245

Two more easy, good ideas. I cannot imagine a thought process that brought us the current "fix" instead of something much simpler and not-terrible-for-balance.

Relic, roll back the popcap to the status quo ante-patch and then use one of these many good ideas to achieve the good effect of being able to bring in call-ins, without the bad ones of shocks being as much popcap as a sherman tank etc..., of the new patch.
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