Of all the factions so far, USF and Soviet suffers terrible late stock unit. While they gain early advantage, the smile soon fade off as late game hits.
This topic is focus on USF and Soviet late game. Clearly, there is a way to make them better than just spamming T34 76 and sherman with 75mm gun.
My proposal for USF
Add an upgrade at major building, this upgrade is called "Refit War Machine" and requires major, captain and lieutenant to upgrade. The upgrade cost 200mp 60 fuel and is USF late tech.
Refit War Machine will allow USF to access to 3 new units: M36 Jackson, M7 Priest and Sherman Jumbo(or just M4A3 76mm if Relic cannot make new unit)
At major tech, replace M36 with M10 Wolverine.
Replace doctrinal Priest with upcoming Sherman Calliope.
Replace doctrinal M10 with M26 Pershing.
My proposal for Soviet
Move T34 76 to tier 3
Move T34 85 to tier 4
Move T70 to doctrine, replace T34 85 with proper CP (4CP)
Add an upgrade to Soviet tier 3, cost 180mp and 60 fuel to access KV1.
Soviet and USF Late Stock
24 Nov 2015, 14:11 PM
#1
Posts: 378
24 Nov 2015, 14:25 PM
#2
Posts: 1024 | Subs: 1
T-34/76 would hit battlefield too early at 8min.
24 Nov 2015, 14:29 PM
#3
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
What's the deal with this "spamming T-34"?
I hear that BS all the time, but I don't get it, why can't you use combined arms?
Can't you throw in SU-85 and Katy?
Make YOURSELF better than spamming T-34.
I hear that BS all the time, but I don't get it, why can't you use combined arms?
Can't you throw in SU-85 and Katy?
Make YOURSELF better than spamming T-34.
24 Nov 2015, 16:23 PM
#4
Posts: 1384
It's fine. They've got a large amount of medium tanks instead of a few amount of tougher tanks. It's your fault if you throw them away instead of massing them.
24 Nov 2015, 16:49 PM
#5
Posts: 275 | Subs: 1
I hear that BS all the time, but I don't get it, why can't you use combined arms?
I use combined arms but they too easy conter. Mix of Conscript, Combat Engineers, HMG (better german), mortar, ATG, bouble Half-track, pair Schoks (or one Guard-dance team) and 2-3 SU-76.
Sturmtiger will kill third of my troops in 1 shout if i lucky. If not...it will be half.
Panzerwerfer or Stuka zu Fuß also cause great damage my combine.
And of course, such a mass of different units is enough difficult to manage, especially on the offensive. This why you see Con-spam, Max-spam, Sniper-cheesy and etc. This is more easy, this is more effective.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
24 Nov 2015, 17:53 PM
#6
Posts: 1216
Of all the factions so far, USF and Soviet suffers terrible late stock unit. While they gain early advantage, the smile soon fade off as late game hits.
If the two years of this game indicates anything, it's that this is supposed to be how the game works.
My proposal for USF
Add an upgrade at major building, this upgrade is called "Refit War Machine" and requires major, captain and lieutenant to upgrade. The upgrade cost 200mp 60 fuel and is USF late tech.
Refit War Machine will allow USF to access to 3 new units: M36 Jackson, M7 Priest and Sherman Jumbo(or just M4A3 76mm if Relic cannot make new unit)
So another upgrade after you go all three officers just to unlock another three units? Wouldn't this do the exact opposite of what you want, Jackson comes even later? Jumbo's not going to happen, especially as non-doc, it would just replace regular M4. If there's a durability issue then M4 should just get armour buff via veterancy or munitions upgrade, not a discrete unit that makes other units redundant.
Priest on top of M8 HMC, pack howitzer, major airstrike and doctrinal abilities? What is this, Total War?
24 Nov 2015, 18:05 PM
#7
Posts: 323 | Subs: 1
*ahum* SU-85 *ahum* 
24 Nov 2015, 18:08 PM
#8
Posts: 830
*ahum* SU-85 *ahum*
JP4 alone counters SU-85 by itself. SU85, has trouble penetrating JP4, other way around we see a JP4 pennetrating a SU-85 with ease.
24 Nov 2015, 23:27 PM
#9
Posts: 378
If the two years of this game indicates anything, it's that this is supposed to be how the game works.
So another upgrade after you go all three officers just to unlock another three units? Wouldn't this do the exact opposite of what you want, Jackson comes even later? Jumbo's not going to happen, especially as non-doc, it would just replace regular M4. If there's a durability issue then M4 should just get armour buff via veterancy or munitions upgrade, not a discrete unit that makes other units redundant.
Priest on top of M8 HMC, pack howitzer, major airstrike and doctrinal abilities? What is this, Total War?
Jackson come later is exactly what I want. I'm not here to buff allied.
Jumbo is just a suggestion. Its cost in comparison will give player second thought about their choice. Just like Panther or Panzer IV.
This is topic about late stock, so leave commander out of argument. Pack is just nothing but a regular mortar now and M8 HMC work only at short range.
The helpless feeling when late game hits USF and Sov, as you choose weak commander (Mechanized, Recon, or NKVD Rifle, Urban...) should be problem to be solved.
And by the way, the T34 spamming is just an example. I have seen ostheer with panther spam and still make a great success, while T34 spam can only work if you have already been winning.
24 Nov 2015, 23:42 PM
#10
Posts: 394
Of all the factions so far, USF and Soviet suffers terrible late stock unit. While they gain early advantage, the smile soon fade off as late game hits.
This topic is focus on USF and Soviet late game. Clearly, there is a way to make them better than just spamming T34 76 and sherman with 75mm gun.
My proposal for USF
Add an upgrade at major building, this upgrade is called "Refit War Machine" and requires major, captain and lieutenant to upgrade. The upgrade cost 200mp 60 fuel and is USF late tech.
Refit War Machine will allow USF to access to 3 new units: M36 Jackson, M7 Priest and Sherman Jumbo(or just M4A3 76mm if Relic cannot make new unit)
At major tech, replace M36 with M10 Wolverine.
Replace doctrinal Priest with upcoming Sherman Calliope.
Replace doctrinal M10 with M26 Pershing.
My proposal for Soviet
Move T34 76 to tier 3
Move T34 85 to tier 4
Move T70 to doctrine, replace T34 85 with proper CP (4CP)
Add an upgrade to Soviet tier 3, cost 180mp and 60 fuel to access KV1.
IS2, ISU-152, T34-85, Jackson, Pershing. L2P Issue.
Porygon Wrote:
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
I don't like Soviet neither, but please cake, just fuck off back to the official noob forum.
Vetlolcake:
Should i just attack move to get there? I might get there easier. Like sovs do
25 Nov 2015, 00:16 AM
#11
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
IS2, ISU-152, T34-85, Jackson, Pershing. L2P Issue.
You're only proving their point by their perspective.
Of all the factions so far, USF and Soviet suffers terrible late stock unit.
25 Nov 2015, 01:10 AM
#12
Posts: 1891
Soviet stock lategame is bad if you rely on t4. But Su-76 spam, support weapon spam, etc. all works.
USF stock lategame is only bad if you pursue a fast T3 strategy and don't close the game out. Plus every USF commander buffs lategame drastically in some way. P47, Priest, M10, I&R Arty, Withdraw and Refit, EZ8, Pershing, and Caliope.
USF stock lategame is only bad if you pursue a fast T3 strategy and don't close the game out. Plus every USF commander buffs lategame drastically in some way. P47, Priest, M10, I&R Arty, Withdraw and Refit, EZ8, Pershing, and Caliope.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
26 Nov 2015, 01:58 AM
#13
Posts: 1216
This topic inevitably touches on commander units because you specifically mention units you would find in commanders and proposing they become stock units. Of the six units you list for USF, only one of them is stock unit, the rest are all found in commanders. If anything, this is entirely about commander units.
This is topic about late stock, so leave commander out of argument. Pack is just nothing but a regular mortar now and M8 HMC work only at short range.
You cannot make such a suggestion and then also demand that people cannot even talk about it by claiming it's not part of the discussion despite the clear fact that it is.
Bottom line: your idea demands a revamp of doctrinal units, so they are, intrinsically, part of the argument.
If you disagree, all you need to do is say "Only I am allowed to talk about commanders."
27 Nov 2015, 20:23 PM
#14
Posts: 323 | Subs: 1
JP4 alone counters SU-85 by itself. SU85, has trouble penetrating JP4, other way around we see a JP4 pennetrating a SU-85 with ease.
The fact that there is a unit that counters the su-85 a bit doesn't make the su-85 useless as late game unit. The su-85 is still strong and good enough to scare of tigers, panters, kingtigers or whatever other tank. At least for me
27 Nov 2015, 20:27 PM
#15
Posts: 987
Of all the factions so far, USF and Soviet suffers terrible late stock unit. While they gain early advantage, the smile soon fade off as late game hits.
This topic is focus on USF and Soviet late game. Clearly, there is a way to make them better than just spamming T34 76 and sherman with 75mm gun.
My proposal for USF
Add an upgrade at major building, this upgrade is called "Refit War Machine" and requires major, captain and lieutenant to upgrade. The upgrade cost 200mp 60 fuel and is USF late tech.
Refit War Machine will allow USF to access to 3 new units: M36 Jackson, M7 Priest and Sherman Jumbo(or just M4A3 76mm if Relic cannot make new unit)
At major tech, replace M36 with M10 Wolverine.
Replace doctrinal Priest with upcoming Sherman Calliope.
Replace doctrinal M10 with M26 Pershing.
My proposal for Soviet
Move T34 76 to tier 3
Move T34 85 to tier 4
Move T70 to doctrine, replace T34 85 with proper CP (4CP)
Add an upgrade to Soviet tier 3, cost 180mp and 60 fuel to access KV1.
But then they'd have early game advantage and late-game strength. Sounds Overpowered.
If the early game was made more even I'd be glad to see some more powerful late game stock units.
Let's keep it constructive
27 Nov 2015, 22:10 PM
#16
Posts: 830
The fact that there is a unit that counters the su-85 a bit doesn't make the su-85 useless as late game unit. The su-85 is still strong and good enough to scare of tigers, panters, kingtigers or whatever other tank. At least for me
True, yet it still is a bit lackluster, a su76 can do the job a su85 is supposed to do just fine..
27 Nov 2015, 22:34 PM
#17
Posts: 621
I think something should be done about USF late game to make other commanders viable instead of just Rifle Company, Heavy Cavalry and Armor Company the reason why these commanders are so popular is they offer alternative tanks and that help your late game while also having other abilities that stengthen the early game (flamers, Assault Engineers, Rangers etc.) if the Sherman were to be buffed then whats the point of having the Easy Eight and the Jackson is fine where it is (glass cannon) but USF could really use a non-doctrinal armor unit that can take a few hits something the Russians lack aswell the other factions have Panthers + Churchill
If you choose Recon, Airborne, Infantry or Mechanized while these commanders offer some good early-mid game abilities or good off-maps they are also shadowed by the ones with armor call ins
I dont play Soviets much so Im not gonna give my opinion on them
Also Im talking from an 1v1 viewpoint I know some commanders without armor call ins have use in team games
If you choose Recon, Airborne, Infantry or Mechanized while these commanders offer some good early-mid game abilities or good off-maps they are also shadowed by the ones with armor call ins
I dont play Soviets much so Im not gonna give my opinion on them
Also Im talking from an 1v1 viewpoint I know some commanders without armor call ins have use in team games
28 Nov 2015, 01:07 AM
#18
Posts: 378
This topic inevitably touches on commander units because you specifically mention units you would find in commanders and proposing they become stock units. Of the six units you list for USF, only one of them is stock unit, the rest are all found in commanders. If anything, this is entirely about commander units.
You cannot make such a suggestion and then also demand that people cannot even talk about it by claiming it's not part of the discussion despite the clear fact that it is.
Bottom line: your idea demands a revamp of doctrinal units, so they are, intrinsically, part of the argument.
If you disagree, all you need to do is say "Only I am allowed to talk about commanders."
Current and proposal are two different things.
Nevertheless, I have no need to reply to you because these kind of post are just negatively criticism on poster and not constructive post to yield better result.
28 Nov 2015, 01:39 AM
#19
Posts: 824
I think something should be done about USF late game to make other commanders viable instead of just Rifle Company, Heavy Cavalry and Armor Company the reason why these commanders are so popular is they offer alternative tanks and that help your late game while also having other abilities that stengthen the early game (flamers, Assault Engineers, Rangers etc.) if the Sherman were to be buffed then whats the point of having the Easy Eight and the Jackson is fine where it is (glass cannon) but USF could really use a non-doctrinal armor unit that can take a few hits something the Russians lack aswell the other factions have Panthers + Churchill
If you choose Recon, Airborne, Infantry or Mechanized while these commanders offer some good early-mid game abilities or good off-maps they are also shadowed by the ones with armor call ins
I dont play Soviets much so Im not gonna give my opinion on them
Also Im talking from an 1v1 viewpoint I know some commanders without armor call ins have use in team games
Buffing or adding a non-doctrinal unit won't make other doctrines more "playable". All doctrines are playable as none of them take away anything from a faction, some are just better than others and the best ones will always be played more than the weaker ones. There is no way to make even EVERY doctrine as the good ones will always be good due to doing better things.
The philosophy is, play good doctrines to win, and play weaker doctrines for fun, but be prepared to lose.
Youtube Streaming: https://www.youtube.com/@broodwarjc1517/streams
28 Nov 2015, 01:42 AM
#20
Posts: 1216
Current and proposal are two different things.
We all know that.
Your proposal is about changing what is current. What I said was you cannot propose so little that change so much and not expect questions about all the blank spaces you create.
Giving USF stock Priest, M10 and Jackson and Jumbo as stock units bloats the roster, and also makes doctrinal units they replace redundant. Why go Priest when you can go Calliope? Or more specifically, why go Calliope when you can always just go Priest? Why go Pershing when you already have Jumbo? Why go vanilla Sherman when you can have both of those options at once? Why go Easy Eight when you got Jumbo?
With your idea the only real commander you need to choose is Airborne, as you get all the viable vehicle options without needing to choose a specific commander.
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