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27 Nov 2015, 00:04 AM
#961
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



Yep, decrease Obers cost to 340-350MP and then up the LMG to 100muni. With the purchase cost of trucks and MP cost upping of Volks, OKW shouldn't float MP like they did before. So if some of their fuel and muni costs go up then MP costs need to go down on certain units.

Yeeeeep, something to that ballpark figure will probably be gud.
27 Nov 2015, 01:36 AM
#962
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2015, 19:51 PMZyllen
safe for the jp4 cloak. why do you consider this to be op?

Kubel:
Vet1 maphack. Sorry, it's a 0 muni cost ability which can be toggle without cooldown. Tracking and infantry detection are also vet1 abilities which cost munitions and are timed limited.
Already explained.

JPIV:
Vet1 fix phaseshift tech
Vet5 reduce the 150% damage bonus (400dmg) while shooting out of cammo.
Damage modifiers are generally bad, specially if it leads to 1 shotting/wiping things (see old For mother russia wombo combos) Mark vehicle/target are on the order of 35% (SU) and 50% (OKW). IIRC heat shells are 50% and same for FHQ (which IMO should be removed cause it leads to easy wipes with indirect fire weapons)
From 150% to 75% (280dmg) would be fine. Note that you also get 150% accuracy and penetration.


FlakHT:
Vet1 Concealing Smoke cost 0 munitions
The unit needs other buffs, fix and tweaks. There's no reason for having FREE smoke.

Stuka:
Vet4 Napalm Barrage should be brought down to lower levels of vet but share cooldown with main barrage.
All other artillery pieces have it's cooldown shared when using their vet ability. Use to be with Precision strike, creeping barrage, counter barrage, etc. TBH i'vent tested deeply after the flame tweaks (used to be good cause it stacked damage) but a 1min cooldown should be in line with other artilleries.

Obers:
Vet4 passive suppression
As stupid as 360 defensive stance suppression was. Give it as an ability as paratroopers but don't leave it as a passive
27 Nov 2015, 02:09 AM
#963
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2015, 19:52 PMZyllen


because it never has been relevant? the okw vet requirement is so absurdly high en severely nerfed it doesnt matter.


have u ever played against vet 4 Obers suppressing units? have u ever played against vet 5 JP4? have u ever played allies in ur life?
27 Nov 2015, 03:24 AM
#964
avatar of Storm267

Posts: 128

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2015, 02:09 AMAladdin


have u ever played against vet 4 Obers suppressing units? have u ever played against vet 5 JP4? have u ever played allies in ur life?


I think..and I hope..he is talking about the rest of the OKW Army. Other than a handful of units most units do not live to see vet 4-5.
27 Nov 2015, 03:30 AM
#965
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2015, 02:09 AMAladdin


have u ever played against vet 4 Obers suppressing units? have u ever played against vet 5 JP4? have u ever played allies in ur life?

If one's never seen a vet 5 JPIV, they and their enemies need to get better. The only reason it shouldn't be vet 5 in a 30+ minute game outside of dying is the enemy refused to build vehicles.

Puma's odds of it ain't awful too, but unlike the JPIV, keeping it alive for a 30+ minute game is pretty hard.

All the other vehicles though, yeah, mostly good luck with that is all I can say.
27 Nov 2015, 07:36 AM
#966
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1



(Panther coming before E8, Pz4 coming before Sherman)



That sux, even if you don't do upgrades and build sherman asap you can't use it as you supposed to.

I would propose okw t4 fuel price increase to 120.
27 Nov 2015, 07:46 AM
#967
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Indeed T4 of OKW should cost 120, with the sws added the cost for T3 would be 300 mp 135 fuel
27 Nov 2015, 08:11 AM
#968
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

Indeed T4 of OKW should cost 120, with the sws added the cost for T3 would be 300 mp 135 fuel


Won't that delay too much OKW P4? Comparing to ostheer one?
27 Nov 2015, 08:32 AM
#969
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Hmm not really, since you only need 1 Tier structure to build without a BP upgrade. As Ostheer you've to get 2x a BP upgrade and a tier structure.
27 Nov 2015, 08:48 AM
#970
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned

Kubel:
Vet1 maphack. Sorry, it's a 0 muni cost ability which can be toggle without cooldown. Tracking and infantry detection are also vet1 abilities which cost munitions and are timed limited.
Already explained.

JPIV:
Vet1 fix phaseshift tech
Vet5 reduce the 150% damage bonus (400dmg) while shooting out of cammo.
Damage modifiers are generally bad, specially if it leads to 1 shotting/wiping things (see old For mother russia wombo combos) Mark vehicle/target are on the order of 35% (SU) and 50% (OKW). IIRC heat shells are 50% and same for FHQ (which IMO should be removed cause it leads to easy wipes with indirect fire weapons)
From 150% to 75% (280dmg) would be fine. Note that you also get 150% accuracy and penetration.


FlakHT:
Vet1 Concealing Smoke cost 0 munitions
The unit needs other buffs, fix and tweaks. There's no reason for having FREE smoke.

Stuka:
Vet4 Napalm Barrage should be brought down to lower levels of vet but share cooldown with main barrage.
All other artillery pieces have it's cooldown shared when using their vet ability. Use to be with Precision strike, creeping barrage, counter barrage, etc. TBH i'vent tested deeply after the flame tweaks (used to be good cause it stacked damage) but a 1min cooldown should be in line with other artilleries.

Obers:
Vet4 passive suppression
As stupid as 360 defensive stance suppression was. Give it as an ability as paratroopers but don't leave it as a passive


+1
27 Nov 2015, 09:20 AM
#971
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2015, 08:11 AMslother


Won't that delay too much OKW P4? Comparing to ostheer one?
OKW P4 is better then the ostheer P4, why should it come out at the same time?
27 Nov 2015, 09:21 AM
#972
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

Hmm not really, since you only need 1 Tier structure to build without a BP upgrade. As Ostheer you've to get 2x a BP upgrade and a tier structure.


Road to unlock P4

With current 105 schwerer cost:

Wehrmacht

80/10 for Tier1 building
100/40 for BP1
200/20 for Tier2 building
100/45 for BP2
260/75 for Tier3 building
--
170 fuel - 20 starting fuel = 150 with all tier buildings (ofc u can skip tier2 or tier1)

OKW current preview mod

100/15 SWS truck
200/25 (battlegroup) or 200/50 (mechanize)
100/15 SWS truck 2
200/105 schwerer
--
a) cheapest way 160 fuel - 10 starting fuel = 150 fuel
b) with mechanize instead of battlegroup = 175 fuel
c) all trucks = 215 fuel

If we increase schwerer fuel by 15 fuel

a) cheapest way 175 fuel - 10 starting fuel = 165 fuel
b) with mechanize instead of battlegroup = 190 fuel
c) all trucks = 230 fuel

So if we increase the price of schwerer, going fastest route OKW p4 will still come later than Ostheer with all tiers. Then again OKW panther still will come way faster than ostheer one, and also u get all the cool featuers of OKW trucks - but i think late ostheer panther is a problem of ostheer T4 teching..
Maybe put upgrade on schwerer that will unlock panther/kt and gun on flak?

OKW P4 is better then the ostheer P4, why should it come out at the same time?


It also cost more.
27 Nov 2015, 09:31 AM
#973
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2015, 09:21 AMslother


Road to unlock P4

With current 105 schwerer cost:

Wehrmacht

80/10 for Tier1 building
100/40 for BP1
200/20 for Tier2 building
100/45 for BP2
260/75 for Tier3 building
--
170 fuel - 20 starting fuel = 150 with all tier buildings (ofc u can skip tier2 or tier1)

OKW current preview mod

100/15 SWS truck
200/25 (battlegroup) or 200/50 (mechanize)
100/15 SWS truck 2
200/105 schwerer
--
a) cheapest way 160 fuel - 10 starting fuel = 150 fuel
b) with mechanize instead of battlegroup = 175 fuel
c) all trucks = 195 fuel

If we increase schwerer fuel by 15 fuel

a) cheapest way 175 fuel - 10 starting fuel = 165 fuel
b) with mechanize instead of battlegroup = 190 fuel
c) all trucks = 210 fuel

So if we increase the price of schwerer, going fastest route OKW p4 will still come later than Ostheer with all tiers. Then again OKW panther still will come way faster than ostheer one, and also u get all the cool featuers of OKW trucks - but i think late ostheer panther is a problem of ostheer T4 teching..
Maybe put upgrade on schwerer that will unlock panther/kt and gun on flak?



It also cost more.


Hmm interesting. Did some wrong calculations then. Thanks for clearing it up. I would prefer to have the Panther/KT locked behind a 50 fuel button like the Comet.
27 Nov 2015, 09:36 AM
#974
avatar of slother

Posts: 145



Hmm interesting. Did some wrong calculations then. Thanks for clearing it up. I would prefer to have the Panther/KT locked behind a 50 fuel button like the Comet.


Forgot to add 3rd SWS truck fuel cost (if u go all trucks route), so diffrence is even bigger.
27 Nov 2015, 09:41 AM
#975
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

OKW has better early game than ost, and better tanks...teching should be more expensive
27 Nov 2015, 09:47 AM
#976
avatar of slother

Posts: 145

OKW has better early game than ost, and better tanks...teching should be more expensive


I'm not saying it shouldn't. Ostheer can unlock all tier and building up to p4 for cost of cheapest route of OKW to unlock p4. I just think there is no need to increase schwerer price anymore. Just OKW Panther comes to early comparing to Ostheer one.
27 Nov 2015, 09:55 AM
#977
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Currently I really don't see any downsides to the higher tech in 1v1's if you go for a kubelwagen to cap. The cappingpower is so big because of the speed the kubel can move with
27 Nov 2015, 10:24 AM
#978
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2015, 09:47 AMslother


I'm not saying it shouldn't. Ostheer can unlock all tier and building up to p4 for cost of cheapest route of OKW to unlock p4. I just think there is no need to increase schwerer price anymore. Just OKW Panther comes to early comparing to Ostheer one.


What is justification for OKW Pz4 (which is superior) coming earlier than Sherman in normal game?

By normal game I mean must-have upgrades like nades and ambulance for USF.
With nades and ambulance, OKW Pz4 comes 40 fuel earlier than Sherman.
27 Nov 2015, 10:33 AM
#979
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108



What is justification for OKW Pz4 (which is superior) coming earlier than Sherman in normal game?

By normal game I mean must-have upgrades like nades and ambulance for USF.
With nades and ambulance, OKW Pz4 comes 40 fuel earlier than Sherman.


Currently the JP4 also comes earlier than the sherman. :huhsign:
27 Nov 2015, 10:49 AM
#980
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2



Currently the JP4 also comes earlier than the sherman. :huhsign:


Did not know that JPIV can rush your infantry. How do you do that with JPIV? :loco:
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