Balance Preview Patchnotes

Jump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 22:54 PMOmega_Warrior

Oh god this patch is going to be a clusterfuck.
Now USF will have even more trouble dealing with the new OKW blobs. They still have the no auto-facing too and their RoF was nerfed pretty bad before. Without the suppression they'll probably get easily overrun.

Meanwhile the ISG will still just be hanging back behind the flak HQ picking away at the allies with no worry of retaliation with it's super range.

Jump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 23:33 PMdrChengele

I am not sure which game you are playing but Pack Howitzer and its suppression is not what keeps OKW infantry from overrunning the US positions.

How will the US have more trouble with blobs, if Volks now cost more and teching to T2 / ISG is way later and way more expensive?

And I love how the people act as if Lieutenant tier is nonexistent. Pack Howie or bust. As if the .50cal or the AAHT are not an option.

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 00:07 AMOmega_Warrior

the price increase on volks is minimal. Especially compared to their new increased effectiveness, dual grenades, more accesible schreks, and the extra manpower from the cheaper strums.

The pack is an extremely vulnerable unit that has neither the retreat capability of mortars, or the gun shield and range of the lieg. It also has no anti infantry flak gun safe zone to fall back to and fire from. On top of this there isn't even a suppression unit to protect it in the captain tier. If the enemy infantry comes into range of t they can easily fire on it all the way back to the base. That means the pack always has to pack up and retreat before the infantry is in range or it will be wiped.

before the suppression allowed the pack to slow down assaults to give it more time to fire and run away. now the pack will have much less time to fire and retreat in assaults. It'll provably struggle to get even 3 shots off before it has to get out of dodge even with a decent rifle screen.

Jump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 18:58 PMImagelessbean

In any case, the OKW panther, which is an upgrade from the regular panther, now arrives early than the Wehr panther,for the same price per unit, and shortly after medium tanks arrive. How do you propose a single Sherman take on such a powerful opponent, which has been gated or very limited before? In team games panther spam will come back with a venegance and no Allied faction has the tools to deal with it seriously.

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 00:07 AMOmega_Warrior

the price increase on volks is minimal. Especially compared to their new increased effectiveness, dual grenades, more accesible schreks, and the extra manpower from the cheaper strums.

The pack is an extremely vulnerable unit that has neither the retreat capability of mortars, or the gun shield and range of the lieg. It also has no anti infantry flak gun safe zone to fall back to and fire from. On top of this there isn't even a suppression unit to protect it in the captain tier. If the enemy infantry comes into range of t they can easily fire on it all the way back to the base. That means the pack always has to pack up and retreat before the infantry is in range or it will be wiped.

before the suppression allowed the pack to slow down assaults to give it more time to fire and run away. now the pack will have much less time to fire and retreat in assaults. It'll provably struggle to get even 3 shots off before it has to get out of dodge even with a decent rifle screen.

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 02:14 AMVuther

It's K man, now suggesting it be buffed to be pretty decent as a long-range howitzer for countering say, Pak 43s, would seem far more feasible?

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 02:21 AMOmega_Warrior

Yeah I was always for simply buffing the barrage instead of the suppression in the first place. I always thought the suppresion was a bad way to buff it, but now it's just back to square 1.

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 00:07 AMOmega_Warrior

the price increase on volks is minimal. Especially compared to their new increased effectiveness, dual grenades, more accesible schreks, and the extra manpower from the cheaper strums.

The pack is an extremely vulnerable unit that has neither the retreat capability of mortars, or the gun shield and range of the lieg. It also has no anti infantry flak gun safe zone to fall back to and fire from. On top of this there isn't even a suppression unit to protect it in the captain tier. If the enemy infantry comes into range of t they can easily fire on it all the way back to the base. That means the pack always has to pack up and retreat before the infantry is in range or it will be wiped.

before the suppression allowed the pack to slow down assaults to give it more time to fire and run away. now the pack will have much less time to fire and retreat in assaults. It'll provably struggle to get even 3 shots off before it has to get out of dodge even with a decent rifle screen.

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 02:58 AMSwitzerland

Do I understand correctly that by replacing the conversion in CAS with supply drop the Player can safely drop fuel or muni to themselves (map dependant) but pretty easy to prepare a 3 minute defence.

vs allied supply run coming for industry, only fuel, still gets killed by base AA and is extremely easy to counter play by comparison.

I hope it's not this, as allied supply run if it's the lend lease one we know is an out of date ability unless the Wher drop is going to fly over our bases too.

Otherwise very pleased. Of course changes will come of the mod I.e. Shreks EVERYWHERE.

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 03:12 AMLemonJuice

base AA have an extremely, extremely low chance of shooting down planes. the schwerer has a better chance, but depending on where its placed it can sometimes not shoot it down at all.

Jump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 17:15 PM__deleted__

Oh katitof katitof.

One this is luchs.

Second thinks is that OKW can get shrecks or incendiary nades until they get at least 45 fuel and wait until medics are build.

This leaves them very vunurable to fast m20 , clowcar because right now your option how to cunter is is raketen and if it get flanked , well , that a shame you loose a lot of map.


Also how you can flush maxims out of buildings without incendiary grenades ?

I´m not saying luch was good , im saying that many players only fear luchs and overlook many other thinks that is do right now.


I think if we give them 40 fuel then luchs will cost 70 fuel and mechanized will cost 60 fuel everything will be fine because it wont arrive before USA captain or before russian at gun + nades.




Right now i tink its too easy ti kick OKW ass by fast m20 or clowcar or maximspam because of no counters.

Jump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 21:14 PMEsxile

I'm really concern about OKW having

1- best starting close combat unit (Sturms) with a price decreased
2- best stock elite infantry (Obers) cheapest ammo cost/effective LMG
3- best pop out from building elite infantry (falls) full dps right from the bat
4- best pop out from building sniper squad (Jaegers) full dps right from the bat
5- best long range survivability/dps squad (pfuss) upgrade requiring cheap munition cost
and now
-6 mainline base infantry squad IA dps buffed and still having shreck upgrade at disposal for the same price
-7 Let's do not forget the only vehicle which is cheap and fuel free having good AI dps, fast capping power and good front and back armor.

Additionally, T1 flak-HT, T2 Luch that not going to be restricted anymore. And still Raken in T0.

If we compare it with USF, it is like putting ATgun TO with no restriction and T1 freely unlocking Zooks, grenades and ambulance.

Volks supported by kubel/sturm are now going to go toes to toes with rifles. Good good.

So my question is what are the OKW drawbacks? Where are the crucial choices you need to take in order to build your strategy if anything is available whenever you go T0/T1 or T0/T2?
Whenever you go T0/T1 or T0/T2 you have ATgun and good AI vehicles. The only decision you make are:

Do I want shreck or puma to support my Raken
Do I want ISG or Walking Stuka to arty
Do I prefer Flak-HT or Luch for IA support
Do I prefer heal station or repair station (for free)

Nothing really about decision making that impact your gameplay like
Sov going T1 or T2 (aggressive no AT or defensive relying only on cons + callin) + what upgrade to unlock and in which order
Ostheer skipping T1 or T2 (or not but this is the army flavor)
USF going T1 or T2 (AI or AT) + what upgrade to unlock and in which order

Jump back to quoted post20 Nov 2015, 03:17 AMJaedrik

Good design / balance >>>>>> unique flavor and feel tbh.

Jump back to quoted post19 Nov 2015, 09:56 AMMuxsus

Quite a promising patch, fixes a lot of issues with OKW and some others too. However I have a problem with it:
The infantry section nerf is probably heavier than relic realizes (vet nerf is fine though), since they have next to no cooldown (most of the time between shots is winddown). This means that decreasing the out-of-cover penalty barely does anything (0.2 DPS at close range), while the other nerfs are massive. Playtesting IS (4 man) vs Grens:
-IS is slightly better than grens out of cover
-IS is better when both in cover
-IS is worse than lmg grens out of cover
-IS is slightly worse than lmg grens when both in cover
The biggest offender is lmg grens actually winning when both are in cover. This makes infantry sections obsolete without 5 man upgrade or brens since they don't have the utility of grens or the fighting power of riflemen. The changes need to be reverted except vet nerf.