Ostheer (Wehrmacht) Grenadiers

I'm not saying that it never suppresses (which it does equal to allied type MG's) I'm talking about pinning, which it never does at all.

It takes roughly half a second more to suppress than an HMG42 - as pinning certainly takes longer to have happen than suppressing and troops can manage to crawl into some cover to further slow it down while the Vickers is otherwise totally alike to an HMG42, its ability to pin is certainly compounded to be noticeably worse than an HMG42 (and I recall pinning makes troops easier to hit, so that might also be a consideration to comparing the two's DPS [heh, remember when pinning was just something that happened to people who forgot about the retreat button?]).

>35 is also where you have to start worrying about grenades, especially the rifle grenade which reach 30.

Indeed, the "advantage" is not without clear risks to make it more of a distinction than a clear advantage.

At least it's got "Best range ever while in buildings", eh?

It takes roughly half a second more to suppress than an HMG42 - as pinning certainly takes longer to have happen than suppressing and troops can manage to crawl into some cover to further slow it down while the Vickers is otherwise totally alike to an HMG42, its ability to pin is certainly compounded to be noticeably worse than an HMG42 (and I recall pinning makes troops easier to hit, so that might also be a consideration to comparing the two's DPS [heh, remember when pinning was just something that happened to people who forgot about the retreat button?]).

Indeed, the "advantage" is not without clear risks to make it more of a distinction than a clear advantage.

At least it's got "Best range ever while in buildings", eh?

and the mg42 got the best dps ever for 15 munition.

Fixed that for ya

(Nope still not tired of it yet)

Thug lyfe

It takes roughly half a second more to suppress than an HMG42 - as pinning certainly takes longer to have happen than suppressing and troops can manage to crawl into some cover to further slow it down while the Vickers is otherwise totally alike to an HMG42, its ability to pin is certainly compounded to be noticeably worse than an HMG42 (and I recall pinning makes troops easier to hit, so that might also be a consideration to comparing the two's DPS [heh, remember when pinning was just something that happened to people who forgot about the retreat button?]).

Indeed, the "advantage" is not without clear risks to make it more of a distinction than a clear advantage.

At least it's got "Best range ever while in buildings", eh?

dont forget its versus 4 man squads, so a model snipe is worth much more than a mg42 killing a model..

dont forget its versus 4 man squads, so a model snipe is worth much more than a mg42 killing a model..

Does mg42 never face flame enginers?

Does vickers never face osttruppen??

Does mg42 never face is sections?

Does vickers never face volks?

Does mg42 never face usf assault enginers???

Does....



It is a bit old that argument about facing low members number squads....isn´t it???

Does mg42 never face flame enginers?

Does vickers never face osttruppen??

Does mg42 never face is sections?

Does vickers never face volks?

Does mg42 never face usf assault enginers???

Does....



It is a bit old that argument about facing low members number squads....isn´t it???

ok sorry wont bring up the low model squad arugment again

ok sorry wont bring up the low model squad arugment again

no man, if you feel this argument is valid, go ahead,

I was just asking....I have no enough knowlegde to be part of those balance threads....just here to learn, and to ask others when I have doubts about whatever.....


regards,

The problem is Rifles, not grens. At the moment Rifles destroy everything. As Australian Magic already mentioned, the way to fix this is to reduce their received accuracy and make them more vulnerable out of cover. This solves the roaming terminator blob destroying everything in its path with A move.

In fact this would be a better game if being out of cover was move heavily punished and would solve blobbing all together.

In fact this would be a better game if being out of cover was move heavily punished and would solve blobbing all together.

So we could finally get rid of CQC troops like Assgrens or PPShCons.

So we could finally get rid of CQC troops like Assgrens or PPShCons.

Not sure if this is sarcasm (I just assume because this is the internet)? These units should be flankers anyway. Charging CQC troops across open terrain isn't skillful play.

In fact this would be a better game if being out of cover was move heavily punished and would solve blobbing all together.

Yes, we definitely need even more features to encourage and dominate the game with LMG spams as well as diminish and punish players using SMG, StG or G43 squads.

Yes, we definitely need even more features to encourage and dominate the game with LMG spams as well as diminish and punish players using SMG, StG or G43 squads.

Because the current features allowing Rifle blobs to destroy all in their path is fine.

Because the current features allowing Rifle blobs to destroy all in their path is fine.

I've heard using overlaping HMGs is hard, you know, the exact thing that worked on rifle blobs in coh1.
Inb4 rifle smoke, in coh1 you had elite infantry with ability to become immune to suppression and pair of HMG42s still worked just fine.

Its a sin not to blob vs clueless players who ignore support weapons really as well as its team games mostly problem.

I think either lower the dps on the Riflemen or give grenadiers a buff for a fighting chance.

didnt read all the replies

but relic should bring back teh zeal

Zeal increases the combat effectiveness of Wehrmacht infantry. In essence, the more units in the squad die the more resilient they become. The units that receive the effects of this passive ability are Volksgrenadiers, Grenadiers and Knight's Cross Holders.

For Volks and Grenadier squads with four men, the bonuses are as followed:

Received damage x0.95
Received suppression x0.85
Weapon accuracy x1.15
Maximum health +10
For all infantry units with three men:

Received damage x0.95
Received suppression x0.75
Weapon accuracy x1.15
Health regeneration +9.6/min
Weapon cooldown x0.75
For all infantry units with two or less man:

Received damage x0.9
Received suppression x0.75
Weapon accuracy x1.25
Weapon cool down x0.25
Weapon reload x0.75
Suppression 0 (no blinking red icons)
For 1 CP, this ability is a very good early game bonus, but becomes even more beneficial when late game units arrive with veteran status. Although units with one man are quite strong because of this ability, they are not invincible, so retreating them is still advised.

I think either lower the dps on the Riflemen or give grenadiers a buff for a fighting chance.

Grenadiers

-Versus Conscripts
Advantaged at long ranges
Even at mid ranges
Disadvantaged at short ranges
-Versus Riflemen
Slightly disadvantaged at long ranges
Disadvantaged at mid ranges
Disadvantaged at short ranges

I'm quite sure they are not supposed to have fighting chance vs rifles. Sole reason is, USF have nothing else in the early game, they can't support themselves with snipers or HMGs or mortars, if rifles didn't walked over grens, then mainline infantry spam from faction that have early and wide access to support weapons would be as strong as mainline infantry spam from faction that doesn't have any other option, which doesn't sound balanced in any way.

I'm quite sure they are not supposed to have fighting chance vs rifles. Sole reason is, USF have nothing else in the early game, they can't support themselves with snipers or HMGs or mortars, if rifles didn't walked over grens, then mainline infantry spam from faction that have early and wide access to support weapons would be as strong as mainline infantry spam from faction that doesn't have any other option, which doesn't sound balanced in any way.

Whats ur excuse for not giving them a lategame 5 man upgrade?With pack howie,browning,brutal vet and dual lmgs ,plus elite troop call=ins,flamer/.1919 available for usf?
In any case grens are useless vs usf compared to osttruppen/pzgrens.