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Penals weaker than conscripts??

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Mr. Someguy
10 Nov 2015, 01:08 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 19:09 PMnegativg
From a design point of view I'd love to see them get PTRS+light AT mine upgrade (I'd remove the PTRS from guards, so they'd be solely AI, but elite at that, I never liked the idea of elite infantry running around with obsolete AT rifles in 1944).

I like this idea, although it would make Conscript AT Tactics redundant. But on the bright side, Guards would serve as the long range combatants.


jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 20:27 PMRedT3rror
Add reinforce decrease upon vet. That way they can scale into late-game with a rather more fitting and uncommon (regarding all coh2 units) role: suicide attacks (squad wipes excluded).

This is also a good idea, fits with them being expendable troops, but doesn't promote reckless play.


jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 00:13 AMFiresparks
it's ironic that the flamer rifleman is one of the most fear allied units while the penal is one of the least used allied units.

Because Riflemen have grenades, smoke, vehicle snare, and at Vet 3, insane durability.
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jan 2016, 01:09 AMluvnest
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII

> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
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Nuclear Arbitor
10 Nov 2015, 01:42 AM
#22
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penals are pretty bad right now because they haven't been touched (except for the inadvertent(?) nerf that satchel's got, since before WFA. they were never hugely cost efficient, grens used to beat them at long range, particularly with the lmg, but we now have units like IS and riflemen who cost slightly more but preform much better.
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Flying Dustbin
10 Nov 2015, 01:57 AM
#23
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I think the Oorah! they get should be available from the get-go or at vet 1.
If they keep it at vet 2 it should be a special Oorah! which gives increased explosive and suppression resistance to fit their role as suicide troops who are frequently thrown into danger.
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BeefSurge
10 Nov 2015, 02:36 AM
#24
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Posts: 1891

Penal scaling should be looked at.

To me, they start off a squad of slightly shootier Cons, but as they fight together they increase their nationalism and bond with each other. (Hence Oorah! at vet 1.)

So at the start they are a suicidal unit, but as they scale you must either risk them in suicide attacks with satchels and flamers, or use them as ranged anti infantry.

Problems: as ranged anti infantry they are garbage, and satchel nerf makes them less useful at frontal attack.

Solutions: buff SVT-weapon profile to be more like M1 Garand, buff vet 2 and 3 gains especially.

Buff satchel, but put under flamethrower upgrade. Rename "Assault Package", 75 munis.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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boc120
10 Nov 2015, 03:55 AM
#25
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Satchel needs to be fixed back to what it was to knock down buildings. Now.
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Ari
10 Nov 2015, 06:47 AM
#26
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Their rifles do more damage at close & mid range than cons' do. I think for the manpower cost of 270 they're honestly just about right balance-wise where they are now.
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ATCF
10 Nov 2015, 10:33 AM
#27
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1 neat trick you can do with penals is to place them in front of a rushing enemy tank, since if you start to throw a satchel and the tank runs over the man that is throwing it, it will instantly explode (dealing 340dmg) same thing happends with AT grenades/Panzerfaust, if you run over them, when they are performing the animation
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ZeaviS
10 Nov 2015, 18:51 PM
#28
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Penals are useful but highly situational. In my opinion, they should have gotten the received accuracy buff that cons got instead. It's pretty silly that they are less durable than cons.
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elchino7
10 Nov 2015, 20:55 PM
#29
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As i've said in the past:

-Adjust cost of unit according to intended performance with new changes.
-Remove SVT and give them Guards Mosins. Give them 2 upgrades.
---Close range: SVT (make them a bit better) + Flamethrower
---Long range: 2xDPs
-Remove tripwire flare. Move hoorah at vet1
-Give them zeal. Increase stats when they fight with fewer models.
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Imagelessbean
10 Nov 2015, 21:05 PM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 20:55 PMelchino7
As i've said in the past:

-Adjust cost of unit according to intended performance with new changes.
-Remove SVT and give them Guards Mosins. Give them 2 upgrades.
---Close range: SVT (make them a bit better) + Flamethrower
---Long range: 2xDPs
-Remove tripwire flare. Move hoorah at vet1
-Give them zeal. Increase stats when they fight with fewer models.


This seems cool.

Ahh tripwire flare, why must you be on every infantry unit in the Soviet army?

Giving penals any form of AT would mean T1 is your one stop shop for death since snipers could be protected from 222 or Kubel from the get go. Needs to be clear play and counter play.
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__deleted__
10 Nov 2015, 21:17 PM
#31
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'Elite Infantry'
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elchino7
10 Nov 2015, 21:41 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 21:05 PMImagelessbean

Giving penals any form of AT would mean T1 is your one stop shop for death since snipers could be protected from 222 or Kubel from the get go. Needs to be clear play and counter play.


T1 and T2 are both cheap fuelwise. There's nothing stopping you from just getting a single penal with AT nade conscript support or going T2 also with a Zis.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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WingZero
10 Nov 2015, 22:17 PM
#33
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The whole T1 for Soviets needs an over haul.
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Iron Emperor
10 Nov 2015, 22:54 PM
#34
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Penals are probably at vet 0 better than conscripts because of the ability to get a flame thrower, rest cons scale way better
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What Doth Life?!
11 Nov 2015, 00:10 AM
#35
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 01:57 AMFlying Dustbin
I think the Oorah! they get should be available from the get-go or at vet 1.
If they keep it at vet 2 it should be a special Oorah! which gives increased explosive and suppression resistance to fit their role as suicide troops who are frequently thrown into danger.


Oh, I like the idea of a unit with some resistance to AOE and explosives and it fits the flavor of Penals perfectly.

And Oorah should definitely replace flares.
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Firesparks
11 Nov 2015, 01:56 AM
#36
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Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 21:05 PMImagelessbean


This seems cool.

Ahh tripwire flare, why must you be on every infantry unit in the Soviet army?

Giving penals any form of AT would mean T1 is your one stop shop for death since snipers could be protected from 222 or Kubel from the get go. Needs to be clear play and counter play.


you get conscript out of the gate and they have access to at nade.

theoretically penal also have access to satchel.


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ElSlayer
11 Nov 2015, 06:50 AM
#37
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jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 21:05 PMImagelessbean
Ahh tripwire flare, why must you be on every infantry unit in the Soviet army?

To screw up Falls and Jaegers obviously :D
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Porillio
11 Nov 2015, 07:49 AM
#38
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Posts: 66

First of all penals only work on big huge maps, where maxims become a liability.

Secondly dont be afraid of the flames


Thridly always push with a concsript behind a penal to merge as fast as possible.
Push with the flamer use it as a rush unit:


Fourthly: work your micro, penals require attentions. Work it!


Lastly follow step 1-3 and be the first one to GG



- Korillios pro guide 2 penals 2015
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d0ggY
11 Nov 2015, 08:26 AM
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Porillio
11 Nov 2015, 16:32 PM
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i HER DAT
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