Pioneer vs sapper

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 10:34 AMMuxsus

Pios have the same received accuracy as sappers and they have a flamer.

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 11:10 AMtenid

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On the repair rate, consider what sappers have to actually repair. Emplacements require significant repairs to keep them going, nerfing repairs speeds would be a further nail in the coffin.
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Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 11:41 AMtenid

Nail in the coffin refers to brit emplacements specifically.

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 14:37 PMWingZero

I would take the extra line of sight on Pioneers any day. The extra line of sight provides so many tactical opportunities not mention flame thrower upgrades.

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 13:30 PMBananenheld

i cant see whats wrong with them. if you compare them to other factions emplacements they are fine. and nobody wants sim city were you can go afk and make some coffee come back and you still got your mapcontrol. well placed emplacements are still strong and fullfill their role 100%

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 11:00 AMFiresparks

Pio have no received accuracy bonus, the sapper have a 20% received accuracy bonus.

The sapper also have access to bren guns and PIAT, compared to the flamer on Pio. The flamer is undoubtedly important but a lmg is pretty awesome as well.

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 11:10 AMtenid

Again, too much "in a vacuum" comparison without considering why sappers have the tools they do.

As infantry, they're the only non-doctrinal brit inf that can fire on the the move. Its one of few options for actually hurting poor positioning of weapons teams for example. Every other faction has non-doctrinal inf that can do decent dps at close range while moving (panzergrens, sturms, riflemen, conscripts).

On the repair rate, consider what sappers have to actually repair. Emplacements require significant repairs to keep them going, nerfing repairs speeds would be a further nail in the coffin.

Brits also only have two light vehicles that will ever need repairs - a universal carrier and (maybe, depending on choice) the AEC. Any tank they have to repair will still be out for a while.

So yes, sappers are better than pioneers - but they're much more important to the brit army than pioneers.

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 03:34 AMPuppetmaster

A Pioneer is better than a Combat engineer

Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 01:05 AMFrustrated Coh2FAn

Significant cost difference. Argument invalid.

Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 01:31 AMMr. Someguy

10 manpower is a significant cost difference?

Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 01:56 AMFiresparks

soviet combat engineer cost 170

Wehr pioneer cost 200

Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 03:06 AMhannibalbarcajr

Don't nerf them just give a slight MP cost to reinforcement increase. They scale very well even without anvil tactics and their 5 man squad upgrade is only available to one other repair/engineer unit the RE's who have to reach vet 2

Jump back to quoted post10 Nov 2015, 06:38 AMFiresparks

Someone has to carry the PIAT, and I would rather have a cheap and durable sapper carry them.

As it is it's already a significant trade off losing 2 weapons in order to have a decent infantry ATW.

Jump back to quoted post9 Nov 2015, 08:59 AMMr. Someguy

Soviet Engineers and Ostheer Pioneers have worse repair speeds than all the new factions. It's a tad embarrassing to be honest. I don't know Royal Engineer's repair rate, but here are the others:

32 seconds for Combat Engineers, Pioneers, and Vehicle Crews.
20 seconds for Veterancy 2 of the Above.

26 seconds for Rear Echelon Troops.
14 seconds for Vet 2 RET's

17 seconds for Sturmpioneers
13 seconds for Sturmpioneers with Minesweeper OR Vet 3
10 seconds for Sturmpioneers with Minesweeper AND Vet 3

Times are based on how long it takes to restore 200 health.