the sapper seems to be vastly superior to the Pioneers. On a per man basis, the Sapper have better received accuracy, better weapon, as well as faster repair speed.
The only advantage the pioneer possess is better sight range and access to flame thrower. A 5 men sapper squad will actually beat a volks or a grenadier quite consistently for significantly cheaper.
I Think the pioneer should see a get a received accuracy buff, while the sapper should get a repair speed nerf and a dps nerf. I think the sapper is a currently a bit overpowered while the pioneer is a bit too weak.
Pioneer vs sapper
9 Nov 2015, 03:32 AM
#1
Posts: 1930
9 Nov 2015, 03:34 AM
#2
10 
Posts: 871
the sapper seems to be vastly superior to the Pioneers. On a per man basis, the Sapper have better received accuracy, better weapon, as well as faster repair speed.
The only advantage the pioneer possess is better sight range and access to flame thrower. A 5 men sapper squad will actually beat a volks or a grenadier quite consistently for significantly cheaper.
I Think the pioneer should see a get a received accuracy buff, while the sapper should get a repair speed nerf and a dps nerf. I think the sapper is a currently a bit overpowered while the pioneer is a bit too weak.
A Pioneer is better than a Combat engineer. A Combat Engineer is better than a Rear Echelon(without spending 120 muni on it). Are you in favour of buffing both of those as well?
9 Nov 2015, 03:37 AM
#3
Posts: 1891
I think that sappers price should reflect performance and they'll be fine.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
9 Nov 2015, 03:53 AM
#4
1 
Posts: 3052 | Subs: 15
A sturmpioner is better than A Pioneer, a pioneer is better than a Combat engineer. A Combat Engineer is better than a Rear Echelon(without spending 120 muni on it). Are you in favour of buffing both of those as well?
+1
9 Nov 2015, 04:07 AM
#5
Posts: 253
Combat Engineers scale crazy well
for 210 mp you get a slightly above average engineer squad
with bolster squads, Combat Engineers turn into a highly durable assault squad with high dps, basically shocktroops without armor.
Anvil turns Combat Engineers, with Bren guns, into statistically the best long range unit in the game.
Combat Engineers are the best example of unit scaling in COH2. I think its actually genius design, but again this all ties into:
Why is Brits Wher 2.0?
for 210 mp you get a slightly above average engineer squad
with bolster squads, Combat Engineers turn into a highly durable assault squad with high dps, basically shocktroops without armor.
Anvil turns Combat Engineers, with Bren guns, into statistically the best long range unit in the game.
Combat Engineers are the best example of unit scaling in COH2. I think its actually genius design, but again this all ties into:
Why is Brits Wher 2.0?
9 Nov 2015, 04:29 AM
#6
Posts: 89
Sappers are imba and only cost 210mp, and are cheap to reeinforce.
One managed to kill 2 of my 4 man sturmpio squad in a close match, thats abusurd.
One managed to kill 2 of my 4 man sturmpio squad in a close match, thats abusurd.
Team game player.
All factions Player.
All factions Player.
9 Nov 2015, 04:33 AM
#7
4 Posts: 474
There's also a bug where if you cancel the t1 building as soon as it's done; it will destroy the t1 structure and allow you to call in 2 sapper squads for the price of 320 mp to 'rebuild your base' 
9 Nov 2015, 04:43 AM
#8
Posts: 1930
Why is Brits Wher 2.0?
the benefit of nearly 2 years of experience after designing 4 faction other faction.
A Pioneer is better than a Combat engineer. A Combat Engineer is better than a Rear Echelon(without spending 120 muni on it). Are you in favour of buffing both of those as well?
At least the sov eng and US RE cost quite a bit less than the Pio. The 10 mp different between the pio and sapper seems to cause a world of difference.
9 Nov 2015, 04:50 AM
#9
Posts: 4928
Agreed, Royal Engineer scaling is crazy good. It's so good that it flat out replaces Line Infantry. An Repair unit replacing Line Infantry, probably shouldn't happen.
With 5 man squads they're almost as good as Assault Grenadiers, except they can build, repair, cost 70MP less, and can be given LMG's. At Vet 3, they're the cheapest unit in the game to reinforce, beating even Osttruppen, while having good DPS and durability.
You can throw in the free Heavy upgrade for a 3rd LMG and higher durability than Shock Troops. At that point, you need vehicles or artillery to counter them, essentially like Obersoldaten.
With 5 man squads they're almost as good as Assault Grenadiers, except they can build, repair, cost 70MP less, and can be given LMG's. At Vet 3, they're the cheapest unit in the game to reinforce, beating even Osttruppen, while having good DPS and durability.
You can throw in the free Heavy upgrade for a 3rd LMG and higher durability than Shock Troops. At that point, you need vehicles or artillery to counter them, essentially like Obersoldaten.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
9 Nov 2015, 04:54 AM
#10
3 Posts: 545
Tier 0 German unit must win against tier 1 Allied unit. RE quietly cry in corner.
9 Nov 2015, 05:44 AM
#11
Posts: 4928
Tier 0 German unit must win against tier 1 Allied unit.
T1 and T2 Infantry units struggle against souped-up T1 Builder units.
RE quietly cry in corner.
I take it you haven't seen Captain S. Price. His entire USF strategy relies on RE as combat troops.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
9 Nov 2015, 07:31 AM
#12
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
or can we buff the ostheer pios repairspeed? im often baffled how long they take to repair when compared to other factiosn repair abilitys..
9 Nov 2015, 08:10 AM
#13
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
or can we buff the ostheer pios repairspeed? im often baffled how long they take to repair when compared to other factiosn repair abilitys..
The Eastern Front Armies could use a repair boost in general. Aside from more engineers/Vet 2 they don't get any ability to increase their repairs non-doctrinally. If the sweepers for the EFA engineers gave a repair boost it would be good as it gimps their ability to get Vet 2.
As for Sappers vs Pioneers, maybe Sappers shouldn't be as tough in terms of durability until their vet kicks in, but I never felt it was too much of a problem unless we're counting Anvil.
As to why they are more survivable, they have 0.8 received accuracy for those who didn't know. That's higher than Sturms, of course without the damage output off the bat.
9 Nov 2015, 08:30 AM
#14
8 Posts: 2470
i'd rather that repairs for the other factions were reduced so that heavy tanks were out for longer after taking damage. repairs are supposed to be an opportunity cost instead of a mp cost.
9 Nov 2015, 08:34 AM
#15
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
CEs over any other engineer any day. Demos and 30 muni mines FTW.
9 Nov 2015, 08:35 AM
#16
Posts: 1930
i'd rather that repairs for the other factions were reduced so that heavy tanks were out for longer after taking damage. repairs are supposed to be an opportunity cost instead of a mp cost.
Rear Echelon(2.0hp/s) get better repair because they are the weakest of the five engineers, and most US player use vehicle crew anyway.
Sturmpio(3.0hp/s + 1 with minesweeper) get better repair because they take up 9 pop. OKW would be crippled if their engineer repair slow.
Sov and Pio repair at the same rate, 1.6hp/s.
The Sapper(2.0hp/s + 1 with heavy) is really the only one who's repairing too fast.
(although I'm also hoping for a buff to the bren carrier's durability. 200 hp is too low for a combat vehicle).
9 Nov 2015, 08:51 AM
#17
Posts: 482
Brits always has better version units compared to the other 4 factions. It will take 6 months for relic to nerf them to normal level... Just wait...
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9 Nov 2015, 08:59 AM
#18
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Rear Echelon(2.0hp/s) get better repair because they are the weakest of the five engineers, and most US player use vehicle crew anyway.
Sturmpio(3.0hp/s + 1 with minesweeper) get better repair because they take up 9 pop. OKW would be crippled if their engineer repair slow.
Sov and Pio repair at the same rate, 1.6hp/s.
The Sapper(2.0hp/s + 1 with heavy) is really the only one who's repairing too fast.
(although I'm also hoping for a buff to the bren carrier's durability. 200 hp is too low for a combat vehicle).
Actually it makes perfect sense for anvil heavy engies to repair faster.
Otherwise you'd have to spam them only to keep churchills on field.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
9 Nov 2015, 08:59 AM
#19
Posts: 4928
or can we buff the ostheer pios repairspeed? im often baffled how long they take to repair when compared to other factiosn repair abilitys..
Soviet Engineers and Ostheer Pioneers have worse repair speeds than all the new factions. It's a tad embarrassing to be honest. I don't know Royal Engineer's repair rate, but here are the others:
32 seconds for Combat Engineers, Pioneers, and Vehicle Crews.
20 seconds for Veterancy 2 of the Above.
26 seconds for Rear Echelon Troops.
14 seconds for Vet 2 RET's
17 seconds for Sturmpioneers
13 seconds for Sturmpioneers with Minesweeper OR Vet 3
10 seconds for Sturmpioneers with Minesweeper AND Vet 3
Times are based on how long it takes to restore 200 health.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
9 Nov 2015, 09:08 AM
#20
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
Soviet Engineers and Ostheer Pioneers have worse repair speeds than all the new factions. It's a tad embarrassing to be honest. I don't know Royal Engineer's repair rate, but here are the others:
32 seconds for Combat Engineers, Pioneers, and Vehicle Crews.
20 seconds for Veterancy 2 of the Above.
26 seconds for Rear Echelon Troops.
14 seconds for Vet 2 RET's
17 seconds for Sturmpioneers
13 seconds for Sturmpioneers with Minesweeper OR Vet 3
10 seconds for Sturmpioneers with Minesweeper AND Vet 3
Times are based on how long it takes to restore 200 health.
wow is there any reason behind this ? what the fuck haha
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