Unofficial OKW Redesign Thread

Wouldnt making OKW choose between Kubel and MG-34 be better? Just like how UK needs to choose between bofor and aec.

So at the start of the game, a 10-15 fuel, 100-200 mp unlock for either MG-34 or Kubel might work. Gives OKW some flexibility without turning into Ostheer 2.0.

The two doctrine that had the MG-34 are Fortification and Luftwaffe, simply replace MG-34 in forti with MG-42. It fits thematically anyway, since forti makes OKW feel a bit like Ost.

For Luftwaffe, replace MG-34 with something of an "offensive" nature maybe like Luftwaffe field divisions. They can could be:

- 4 man, non elite, weak squad like Rear Echelon (as they were used as such) with a bonus on accuracy and received accuracy in allied territory for 180-200MP with the ability to setup the flak guns in heavy fortification (I mean, the anti air units were subordinate to luftwaffe as well, so it makes sense).
- 5 man, non elite, volksgren esque squad. They would be armed with Kar-98K and can get a single LMG-34 for 60 munition. They do not have grenades, but have panzerfaust instead. This also gives OKW a non expensive AT snare apart from mines (as fallschrim is the only other unit with faust?)

Suggested changes:

Edit: I would like to add that in my view, Ostheer is in a worst estate than OKW right now. And the problem is the sloooooow teching tree I think. On the other hand, OKW has a quicker teching tree and the ability to hold teritory due to the Med truck and FRP. Ostheer loses teritorry verry quickly and is verry hard to take it back. If we count some losses in the process, a come back for ostheer is even harder in middle-late game. I think something must be done related to its core infantry (especialy grenadiers).

Ostheer IMO is better than OKW - at least its very good at holding ground against all allied forces and can counter attack too. The Paks and grens/MGs tend to be good enough for ostheer.

Just a heads up, some people here are getting uptight at certain posters posting things that are off-topic. Relax, it's just a game and they only posted once.

If yo want to redesign OKW, make the mechanized regiment more appealing. The problem isn't the volks, is that you only build volks and never light armor.

I have been watching some live games USF vs OKW this week end and basically OKW players are just doing a mix of volks + sturm + JLI/Falls + 1 or 2 raken into T3, 1 or 2 obers and a Pz4 or Panther.
No Half-track, no puma, no Luch, no Jpz4, not even the maphack sdfk (forgot its name) while every USF players was at least building 1 light unit (m20/ht/stuart).

Flamers are useless vs armor and I'm pretty sure the HT and Puma are on the right spot today vs USF, the problem is how to access them.

Definitively, something need to be think around the resource penalty. Or to switch the penalty on the manpower or to modify how its apply to OKW, or purely remove it and readjust prices.

At the moment OKW regains access to its light armor, it will become viable again in 1vs1 and 2vs2 and I'm pretty sure you'll don't need to change unit stats for that.

Why would someone go for Obersoldaten, Jaegers, Fusiliers or Fallis if he could just spam effective Volks. That's my point. Getting elite infantry would become obsolete.

Because these units are completely different and ad different kinds of strengths to the okw infantry ? obers are long range fighters fusiliers are short/mid range fighters JLI are a support unit and the FSJ are fragile all rounders.

What you are saying makes no sense. i mean brit IS are the best infantry in the game right now yet you still see commando's. you still see rangers/para's .

If yo want to redesign OKW, make the mechanized regiment more appealing. The problem isn't the volks, is that you only build volks and never light armor.

I have been watching some live games USF vs OKW this week end and basically OKW players are just doing a mix of volks + sturm + JLI/Falls + 1 or 2 raken into T3, 1 or 2 obers and a Pz4 or Panther.
No Half-track, no puma, no Luch, no Jpz4, not even the maphack sdfk (forgot its name) while every USF players was at least building 1 light unit (m20/ht/stuart).

Flamers are useless vs armor and I'm pretty sure the HT and Puma are on the right spot today vs USF, the problem is how to access them.

Definitively, something need to be think around the resource penalty. Or to switch the penalty on the manpower or to modify how its apply to OKW, or purely remove it and readjust prices.

At the moment OKW regains access to its light armor, it will become viable again in 1vs1 and 2vs2 and I'm pretty sure you'll don't need to change unit stats for that.

That has more to do that these units are quite bad. the puma is a rather subpar tank hunter if you compare it to the m10. the okw track? a joke compared to any other track and the maphack is overrated because you know the okw player is maphacking.

-Volks have panzerschreck and G43 upgrade for specialized role
Pzsch for AT and G43 AI

-Mg34 need buff. maybe fast reposition

-Kubel can shoot in movement for counter sniper retreat

-IR halftrack when spot unit in fog war can call 1-2-3(vet 0 one shell, vet 2 two shell..) artillery shell like english .maybe at slow vet call light barrage and hig vet heavy barrage. in combination with sturm officer can call smoke barrage

-panzerfusilier have G43 rifle in default and move at 3 cp

-Med HQ have LeiG,Puma,Luchs

-Mec HQ have Flak Halftruck,JP4,Walking Stuka

- Flak HQ have P4,Panther,IR Halftruck, Ober

That has more to do that these units are quite bad. the puma is a rather subpar tank hunter if you compare it to the m10. the okw track? a joke compared to any other track and the maphack is overrated because you know the okw player is maphacking.

Are you serious?

Jpz4 counter any USF armor (minus Pershing maybe)
Puma counter USF T1 and Stuart (microplay) and outrange Sherman
Half-track is a good support unit, its defensive role lead you to push with your sturm and deploy it on the conquered territory to stop the counter attack.
Not to mention that all those units are greatly helped by camo raketen giving extra vision if positioned in front.

The problem with OKW, is that like other armies you need to use combined arms, but for whatever reason OKW players doesn't want to play with their medium and light units. Do you remember that was Relic Goal when they nerfed the Call-in system? Giving more room to T2/T3 light/medium units for all factions. Buta s per today OKW is the only faction that doesn't build anything from their T2 before their Pz4 or Panther.
So you can argue that rifleflam are strong but if you don't even try to build their natural counter = HT or Luchs, you're not going to win anyway!

From my experience and what I see, 1st OKW players have greater chance to win if they use a Kubel at start and micro it well. And second they also have better chance to win when they deploy a HT/luch as medium to counter rifles before the Pz4.

My opinion is there is not need to buff what is overuse today but make the other side of OKW army more accessible to combined strategy. I understand the fuel is the issue here so the redesign is problem around here to be done.

From reading some of the ideas here, some people really don't like the idea of asymmetrical faction design. It's almost like they want Ostheer but with King Tiger.

From reading some of the ideas here, some people really don't like the idea of asymmetrical faction design. It's almost like they want Ostheer but with King Tiger.

T1 tank destroyer is silly. Gimped resource income is a terrible mechanic that contributes greatly to the faction's performance disparity in 1v1 compared to 4v4. Borderline-unachievable veterancy bonuses (that often aren't even that great) aren't doing much to help.

TL;DR: We don't have an issue with asymmetrical balance. The problem's terrible faction design.

I think vet5 is good thing and it keeps players to be happy about their achievement as i kept this unit alive for so long.

Make whole faction better then others.

I think vets for okw should be like vet3okw slightly worse then allies/axis vet3, vet4 okw equilly strong with allies/axis and vet5 better then the rest.

The Vet 3 buff for rifles is totally fine. The problem is that some units dont vet up as fast with OKW. Otherwise its fine, people are taking it out of proportion.

So, why not just nerf rifles a bit. Instead of buffing Volks, Grens, Pzgrens, Obers, JLI and so on?
Both Rifles and IS are a tad OP. Volks need small AI buff, but both IS and Rifles neet Vet nerfs for Ostheers sake.

Just my 2 cents...

100% income.
10F for start.
Med HQ - 200MP/50F (MG34 - Kubel doctrinal for 0CP, Lieg, Searchlight, 251/17 Flak)
Mec HQ - 200MP/80F (Luchs, Puma, Stuka, Obers)
PzSchwerer HQ - 200MP/120F (requires Med HQ and Mec HQ) (Panzer IV, Panther, Jadgpanzer)

Volks - small damage increase along side with reinforce increase (with 100% income we must avoid MP float)

300MP for Opel truck to improve income from points.

No more vet 5 system (which is broken like hell).

LMG34 upgrade - 120ammo.

Schreck upgrade - 100ammo.

King Tiger - with 100% income and ability to place Opel trucks, it would come far far to fast, similar T34 while units like IS2, Tiger or Pershing would come far far later than KT.
To solve this, 1: I'd place KT into new doctrine, 2: Make KT "doctrinal" with every single doctrine. In other words, KT would be unlocked any time (despite tiers) when any of your doctrines reach 14CP. So no matter if you go Jaeger or Fortifications, once you reach 14/15CPs you can build KT (no rushing for 16min KT)

The only idea I can throw in is to make an under used ability more used, change scavenge to give 10% of the units fuel cost in return and change thorough scavenge to give 20% so scavenging a centaur will give 10 fuel and a IS-2 will give 23 or 20/46 with thorough scavenge. I think scavenge was one of the things to offset the fuel income but I don't see it doing enough since the most I have used it in a match was 3 time so 15 fuel.

Other wise I like a lot of things I see in the thread but I would like for them to be more unique, people want volks to be like rIfles being your early and endgame infantry despite having obers being available even if they aren't enough right now. I think they can work with a reduced income, 5 vet, and trucks they just need to be adjusted to certain levels, perks can be introduced and mechanics can be tweaked. Carlos's ideas do look like a good start.

Are you serious?

Jpz4 counter any USF armor (minus Pershing maybe)
Puma counter USF T1 and Stuart (microplay) and outrange Sherman
Half-track is a good support unit, its defensive role lead you to push with your sturm and deploy it on the conquered territory to stop the counter attack.
Not to mention that all those units are greatly helped by camo raketen giving extra vision if positioned in front.

The problem with OKW, is that like other armies you need to use combined arms, but for whatever reason OKW players doesn't want to play with their medium and light units

Lets do a quick review.

Are you seriously suggesting that you should buy a jp4 to counter mediums and lv's when the p4 does that just as well? only when dedicated TD's arrive ( and the only reason why allies should by TD's is because of the p4 !) lets not forget that the p4 is capable of defeating infantry.

puma's ? mate plz you can defeat a stuart with the puma but the m10 kills tigers. thats not a minor differences. and killing stuarts and shermans? once again p4's are better for that.

I really wonder if you play the okw . both m5 and usf track have more firepower for a cheaper price and most importantly they are mobile. And what really puts the okw track in the never going to be used zone: its not reliable. it can hit infantry or it can hit the anthill in front of said infantry. thx but no thx.

You complain that the okw player do not use combined arms. But any OKW player worth his salt will know that the so called combined arms is in fact weaker then teching straight to the p4.

Lets do a quick review.

Are you seriously suggesting that you should buy a jp4 to counter mediums and lv's when the p4 does that just as well? only when dedicated TD's arrive ( and the only reason why allies should by TD's is because of the p4 !) lets not forget that the p4 is capable of defeating infantry.

puma's ? mate plz you can defeat a stuart with the puma but the m10 kills tigers. thats not a minor differences. and killing stuarts and shermans? once again p4's are better for that.

I really wonder if you play the okw . both m5 and usf track have more firepower for a cheaper price and most importantly they are mobile. And what really puts the okw track in the never going to be used zone: its not reliable. it can hit infantry or it can hit the anthill in front of said infantry. thx but no thx.

You complain that the okw player do not use combined arms. But any OKW player worth his salt will know that the so called combined arms is in fact weaker then teching straight to the p4.

What the point of comparison between a light tank hunter an a medium tank hunter? You'll never face a Tiger with OKW and by the time a churchill/IS2/Pershing hit the field you can have a puma + whatever other tank you want.

What I try to tell you is relying only on volks, volks, volks to hold the line, deal AI and AT is stupid.
OKW already have the best tool to secure his fuel point and 1/3 of the map, you just need to harass one other 1/3 to succeed. But you need to use all your arsenal for that.

So instead of looking around buffing volks or stock MG34, just make mechanized regiment easier to access and if the HT and Puma are so bad, buff them.

Make OKW something else than a stupid volks spam with MG34 in support.

Just my 2 cents...

100% income.
10F for start.
Med HQ - 200MP/50F (MG34 - Kubel doctrinal for 0CP, Lieg, Searchlight, 251/17 Flak)
Mec HQ - 200MP/80F (Luchs, Puma, Stuka, Obers)
PzSchwerer HQ - 200MP/120F (requires Med HQ and Mec HQ) (Panzer IV, Panther, Jadgpanzer)

Volks - small damage increase along side with reinforce increase (with 100% income we must avoid MP float)

300MP for Opel truck to improve income from points.

No more vet 5 system (which is broken like hell).

LMG34 upgrade - 120ammo.

Schreck upgrade - 100ammo.

King Tiger - with 100% income and ability to place Opel trucks, it would come far far to fast, similar T34 while units like IS2, Tiger or Pershing would come far far later than KT.
To solve this, 1: I'd place KT into new doctrine, 2: Make KT "doctrinal" with every single doctrine. In other words, KT would be unlocked any time (despite tiers) when any of your doctrines reach 14CP. So no matter if you go Jaeger or Fortifications, once you reach 14/15CPs you can build KT (no rushing for 16min KT)

Haha, by first reading I thought you want the KT to deploy Opel trucks. After reading a second time I agree with most of your points. Despite the Vet 5, I would leave this for the unique faction design.

@Exs: Because all axis light stuff suck balls and hard countered by the new, invincible, Krupp stahl-Powered Stuart and the free 2xZooks Dogs.

Case closed.

And famethrowers.

Yeah, also pretty bad, but it'd be a lot more bearable without the current vet 3.

Still was definitely pretty damn good without it beforehand...

So pretty much what was achieved here:

Teching should be more flexible-with amount of available units per building depending on overall tech level.
-whether this is accomplished via global T0 research, or amount of trucks placed.

Volks need a rework, or at least better scaling.
-buffing Kar98 damage to 12, at least.

Mech HQ needs buffs for it to be viable-swapping Obers and Walking Stuka is a good idea


-on this thought, Flak Halftrack ought to be price buffed, when considering its fragility.

Vet 5 on many units is unobtainable/useless
-buff vet on underperforming units.

JP4 in BHQ is over performing, makes it a no-brainer.
-move P4 to Mech HQ (remember, Teching is redesigned so fuel cost is high) to compete, or move JP4 to Shwerer, with Luchs going to BHQ. Luchs could also require additional tech. (2 structures.)

Kubel holds early game together in good hands, but ultimately hurts faction.
-swap Kubel and doctrinal MG34, while buffing both.

Shwerer Flak HQ gun should have some sort of cost.
-300 to 400 MP sounds good. To compensate it can be buffed to pre-nerf levels.

Sturmpioniers medical crates ability isn't worth it, further encourages BHQ usage.
-make Medical Training a possible upgrade for Sturms, that functions like the Brits. It's this or minesweeper package.

Obers are too easy to wipe
-adjust DPS output and received accuracy and cost of individual soldiers to a lower level than now; give Obers 5 men.

King Tiger isn't good enough
-buff Spearhead.