Unofficial OKW Redesign Thread

EDIT

Based off of what I've got here, I have come up with this revision.

Some terminology:
“Converted” means SWS Halftrack converted into a base building.
“Researched” means that a base building is or has been in existence on the field.

Universal changes:
-OKW starting fuel to 50 (from 40)
-The Schwerer Panzer HQ no longer requires one of the other two buildings to be deployed before it can be constructed.
-OKW trucks are automatically dispatched every three minutes, regardless of whether or not there is an SWS that has not been set up. Stops after all base buildings are built.

All cost figures are based off of rushing these units onto the battlefield.
USF M20 Utility Car requires 70 Fuel (50+20)
UKF AEC Mk. III requires 95 Fuel (30+15+50)
USF M15A1 AAA Halftrack requires 110 Fuel (50+60)
USF M5A1 Stuart requires 130 Fuel (60+70)
SOV T-70 requires 165 Fuel (10+85+70)
SOV SU-76M requires 170 Fuel (10+85+75)
USF M8A1 Scott requires 245 Fuel (50+120+75)
UKF Centaur AA Mk. II requires 245 Fuel (30+115+100)
UKF Cromwell Mk. IV requires 255 Fuel (30+115+110)
SOV T-34/76 requires 265 Fuel (10+85+90+80)
SOV BM-13 Katyusha requires 270 Fuel (10+85+90+85)
USF M4A3 Sherman requires 280 Fuel (50+120+110)
USF M36 Jackson requires 295 Fuel (50+120+125)
UKF Sherman Firefly requires 300 Fuel (30+115+155)
SOV SU-85 requires 305 Fuel (10+85+90+120)
USF M4A3E8 Sherman Easy Eight requires 310 Fuel (50+120+140)
UKF Churchill Mk. VII requires 345 Fuel (30+115+50+150)
UKF Comet requires 380 Fuel (30+115+50+185)


Units are unchanged unless otherwise specified.

-Flak emplacement: same stats as current Flak Halftrack, +90% resistance to sniping, +75% resistance to de-crewing

Command Headquarters (T1)
-Sturmpioneers: Can be upgraded with UKF Infantry Section Medic ability or Minesweeper.
-Volksgrenadiers: Vet boosts DPS of Kar98
-MG34 Team: Moved from being doctrinal to non-doctrinal.
-Raketenwerfer 43:
-Tiger II: Slight Health buff to 1400 (from 1280). Buff Spearhead Vet 3 ability to increase Mobility to 4.5 m/s. Lower Vet requirements. Requires all three base buildings to be researched, and an additional Tiger II Unlock (100 Manpower 10 Fuel, 30 seconds). (required fuel 50+50+50+10+260 = 420)

Battlegroup Headquarters: 200 Manpower 50 Fuel
Go for defensive early-mid game vehicle. JP4 competes with MechHQ's P4.

By itself:
-Sdkfz 251/17 Flak Halftrack: (required fuel 50+45= 95, from 85)

Additional units with MechHQ or Schwever researched:
-leIG 18 Infantry Support Gun: Slight infantry model Health buff, Manpower cost to 400 (from 430), remove suppression, increase range by 10%, reduce scatter by 15%, increase splash radius and damage by 30%

Additional units with MechHQ and Schwerer researched:
-Jagdpanzer IV L/70: (required fuel 280, from 170)

Mechanized Regiment Headquarters: 200 Manpower 50 Fuel
Go for aggressive early-mid game vehicle. P4 competes with BHQ's JP4.

By itself:
-Pzkpf. II Ausf. L Luchs: (required fuel 100, from 170)

Additional units with BHQ researched:
-Obersoldaten: Slight Health buff, Vet 2 (+40% Accuracy, -25% Weapon Cooldown) swapped with Vet 3 (-29% Received accuracy, passive healing)

Additional units with BHQ and Schwerer researched:
-Panzer IV Ausf. J: (required fuel 285, from 255)

Schwerer Panzer Headquarters: 200 Manpower 50 Fuel
Puma provides light AT if coming from BHQ and is still early enough to counter Stuart/T-70 rush, unlocks OKW's blob punisher/building demolisher with one additional building, and gives you a Panther with all buildings unlocked.

Comes without Flak 18 3.7cm AAA, requires upgrade to unlock
Unlock Flak: 200 Manpower 30 Fuel, buff stats to pre-nerf

By itself:
-Sdkfz 234/2 Puma: (required fuel 120, from 110)

Additional units with BHQ or MechHQ researched:
-Sdkfz 251 Walking Stuka: (required fuel 200, from 140)

Additional units with BHQ and MechHQ researched:
-Pzkpf Panther: (required fuel 325, from 395)


Commander changes:

Breakthrough Doctrine
-15CP Jagdtiger: Vet 5 changed to Wallbang (shoots through walls)

Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine
-1CP Kübelwagon 240 Manpower: Moved from non-doctrinal to doctrinal, otherwise unchanged.
-2CP Air-Dropped S-mine Field 80 Munitions: Same as Wehrmacht variant, except positions mines randomly in the area (like vCoH PE version). Mines float down 1.75 seconds after smoke.
Replaces the 2CP “Heavy Fortifications.”

Fortifications Doctrine
-4CP Sdkfz 251/20 IR Halftrack 200 Manpower 5 Fuel: Moved from non-doctrinal to doctrinal, otherwise unchanged.
Replaces the 1CP “MG34 HMG Team”

Feuresturm Doctrine
-8CP Flammpanzer 38(t) Hetzer: Vet requirements lowered by 20%

I really don't think the whole faction needs a redesign. Some units need tweaks but that's it.

Volks: 240MP, rifle damage to 12, shreck becomes a snare.

Kubel: suppression removed, DPS increased, can cap, limited to one (you can get a new one if you lose it), starting unit.

MG34: cost to 240MP, DPS and suppression increased.

Sturmpios: close range radius to 5 or 6.

Obers: Mostly fine. Their LMG could be free again tho.

Vet requirements for certain units should be lowered.

Especially the FlaK HT and Luchs rarely reach higher vet ranks.

Here is what I would do for the Truck Tech

T1- Main HQ
Sturmpios Now has Inced Grenades at Vet 3, vets faster
Volks now have Concussion grenades at Vet 3, has their normal grenades back. removed inceds
Kubel should get a durability buff with vet (Maybe 2 or 3) and vet alittle bit faster
KT just needs either performance or cost buff, not both
Overall, T1 has really nothing to worry about, In my opinion, it's the most stable part of the OKW Tech Tree.

T2- Medi-Mobile
Leig should be able to Auto Face at Vet 3 (This goes for the Pack Howi at Vet 3 too)
Crew Gets healed at 1/2 the rate its currently in, cannot reinforce while firing
You should be rewarded for keeping your leig alive, same for the Pack Howi

T2.1- Repair-Mobile
Building itself now has a new optional upgrade: Radar Jammer: Units around the truck and the truck itself is not seen on the minimap (200 Manpower)
Puma's Co-axle MG should be a bit more lethal
Puma now has 5 more frontal armor
Flak Track Should have the ability to hulldown for more durability
The main problem is that the Repair Truck needs more incentive to be chosen over the medi truck. hopefully, the new upgrade and flak truck buff gives the OKW a more direct support defensive wise.

T4- Flack Truck
Flak Cannon is slightly more powerful, but is initially only able to fire at planes
New Optional Upgrade: Flak Upgrade: The Flak cannon is now able to fire upon ground units (325 Manpower)
P4J now requires Medi Truck to be built
Panther now requires Repair Truck to be built
Cost Decrease to Obersodalten's MG upgrade (60 Muni to 50)
Luchs now builds faster (15% decrease in production time)
Luchs now has 10 more penetration
Luchs now deals 4 more damage
Luchs now has 5 more frontal armor
Originally. most OKW players usually just rushed to T4 before doing anything. This change does a few thing:
Further Promoted the Repair Truck, requiring the only way to build Panthers
Gives the Alllied players more time to react to a fast flak HQ, but punishes them more if they intentionally leave it go unnoticed
Promotes the Obers and Luchs more if the player wishes to rush T4 for them
Gives OKW a reason to spend their Manpower

obers/falls,kt definitely need buff especeially falls and obers need heavy buff jadtiger needs its stupid stun mechanic removed

obers/falls,kt definitely need buff especeially falls and obers need heavy buff jadtiger needs its stupid stun mechanic removed

If you are using Obers and Falls in your first line you are doing something wrong. Volks take the damage, Obers do the punch.... simple L2P and the Jagdtiger has 85 range for a reason.

The only idea I can throw in is to make an under used ability more used, change scavenge to give 10% of the units fuel cost in return and change thorough scavenge to give 20% so scavenging a centaur will give 10 fuel and a IS-2 will give 23 or 20/46 with thorough scavenge. I think scavenge was one of the things to offset the fuel income but I don't see it doing enough since the most I have used it in a match was 3 time so 15 fuel.

Other wise I like a lot of things I see in the thread but I would like for them to be more unique, people want volks to be like rIfles being your early and endgame infantry despite having obers being available even if they aren't enough right now. I think they can work with a reduced income, 5 vet, and trucks they just need to be adjusted to certain levels, perks can be introduced and mechanics can be tweaked. Carlos's ideas do look like a good start.

I think this is one of the keys here. The okw reduced income is supposed to be offset by scavenge, but it isn't really. Especially against USF where people don't really build weapons teams anymore, there isn't a lot to scavenge. I think making scavenge % based is interesting. One issue is that it can really snowball if you lose an expensive tank because that just rewards them with even more fuel.

Looking at scavenge and how to give it more utility would go a long way to make okw more fun to play. While the reduced income isn't necessarily broken, you do feel like you can't really afford to get many vehicles.

Also, I do like carlos danger's teching idea, I think it's really interesting. Obviously would need to be tweaked to get the balance right, but the general principle is really interesting.

What if you tied what units you could build from trucks to a linear global tech in T0, just like Ost? Difference here is you get to pick your structures.

I Would say linear tech like Ost is too similar/repetitive. Relic would probably like to keep OKW tech unique.

If you are using Obers and Falls in your first line you are doing something wrong. Volks take the damage, Obers do the punch.... simple L2P and the Jagdtiger has 85 range for a reason.

Do you have some weird disease that prevents you from clicking the obers/falls?

Together with Hajas I made an OKW Overhaul mod. You can subscribe to it here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=552338586

Please note, this is about the design. Costs, damage profiles, ... are roughly chosen, but its surely worth a try playing.

Here is what we changed:

Removed the resource penalties.

Tier0 - HQ
Units you can build:

• Pioneer [STARTING UNIT]
  200MP
  The pioneer is basicly the same from the Wehrmacht faction. It can build heavy wire and schu-mines. Still has the flamer upgrade and minesweeper.
  
  
• Volksgrenadier
  260MP
  The Volksgrenadiersquad now comes equipped with mp40's. You can upgrade them when you build T2 to MP44's. They can throw the fusilier AT nade. To throw a grenade you need vet1.
  
  
• Kübel
  240MP
  Nothing changed.
  
  
• Flak HT [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  270MP 30FU
  This unit had some required resource changed. But its locked behind the upgrade Heavy Support. The intention is to keep the MG34 as a commander call in, the flak HT is a good supressor. Its also effective vs light vehicles.
  
  
• SwS call in
  100MP 20FU
  Call in a truck.
  

Upgrades:

• Heavy Support
  100MP 50FU
  This unlocks a unit in every building.
  For T0 this is the Flak HT, T1 this is the Jagdpanzer4, T2 you get the Panzer IV and T3 you get the KT.
  

Tier1 - Medic truck
Units you can build:

• Obersoldaten
  460MP 20FU
  They are equipped with MP44's, you can upgrade with an LMG. The MP cost has been increased heavily, they also cost a small amount of fuel, because they come in a 250 HT now. Its a five man squad now.
  
  
• Jagdpanzer 4 [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  400MP 135FU
  Nothing changed, but is locked behind the Heavy Support upgrade now.
  
  
• Tank Hunters
  425MP
  A new squad, five men heavy. Comes with 1 panzerschreck. You can get two more panzerschrecks for 60 muni each. At vet3 they get an ability they increases the received fire on a selected vehicle for a small amount of time.
  
  
• LeiG
  350MP
  Nothing changed. But the supression should be removed, and accuracy should be lowered.
  

Upgrades:

• Retreat point
  Nothing changed.
  

Tier2 - Flak HQ
Units you can build:

• Sturmpioneer
  340MP
  Alightly better damage, can place med kits for 15 muni at vet1 and can build Riegel mines. Riegel should cost 90MU.
  
  
• Raketenwerfer
  290MP
  Has range of a normal AT gun now.
  
  
• Puma
  320MP 70FU
  Nothing changed
  
  
• Luchs
  350MP 70FU
  Nothing changed. But fuel cost slightly increased (50 to 70).
  
  
• P4 [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  360MP 135FU
  Nothing changed. But is locked behind the heavy support upgrade now.
  

The flak HQ is moved here to boost the early game a bit, also to give a more secure place to your late game vehicles (Mech truck).
If flak HQ replaces T2, the damage and supression should be lowered.

Tier3 - Mechanized truck
Units you can build:

• IR HT
  200MP 5FU
  Basicly the same unit.
  
  
• Stuka
  390MP 100FU
  Basicly the same unit.
  
  
• Panther
  490MP 175FU
  Nothing changed
  
  
• KT [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  720MP 260FU
  Nothing changed. You still need all three trucks.
  

The convert muni/fuel ability is still available to.

Please keep in mind, this is about the design!

Re-building Battlegroup Headquarters / Mechanized Regiment Headquarters / Schwerer Panzer Headquarters costs only manpower.

-re-building base buildings for usfUSF and britsBritish for free?
What about sovietsostheerokw? What the garden??

You get 1 sWS Supply Half-track even if all (Battlegroup/Mechanized Regiment/Schwerer Panzer) Headquarters are currently converted/built.

-so you don't have to wait another 3 minutes if any gets destroyed to re-access your tech.

Command Headquarters: Field Infirmary Upgrade

('Medic' upgrade at HQ, 150 manpower just like for Soviets, ALL FACTIONS SHOULD GET THIS.
What about usfusf,britsbrits,ostheerwerhmacht, okwokw? What the garden??

OKW rebuilding of tech structures should be halved. Way too punshing to rebuild a flak panzer HQ with 80 fuel to get obers/luchs/P4/panther because concentrated fire operations artillery one shotted it.

Together with Hajas I made an OKW Overhaul mod. You can subscribe to it here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=552338586

Please note, this is about the design. Costs, damage profiles, ... are roughly chosen, but its surely worth a try playing.

Here is what we changed:

Removed the resource penalties.

Tier0 - HQ
Units you can build:

• Pioneer [STARTING UNIT]
  200MP
  The pioneer is basicly the same from the Wehrmacht faction. It can build heavy wire and schu-mines. Still has the flamer upgrade and minesweeper.
  
  
• Volksgrenadier
  260MP
  The Volksgrenadiersquad now comes equipped with mp40's. You can upgrade them when you build T2 to MP44's. They can throw the fusilier AT nade. To throw a grenade you need vet1.
  
  
• Kübel
  240MP
  Nothing changed.
  
  
• Flak HT [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  270MP 30FU
  This unit had some required resource changed. But its locked behind the upgrade Heavy Support. The intention is to keep the MG34 as a commander call in, the flak HT is a good supressor. Its also effective vs light vehicles.
  
  
• SwS call in
  100MP 20FU
  Call in a truck.
  

Upgrades:

• Heavy Support
  100MP 50FU
  This unlocks a unit in every building.
  For T0 this is the Flak HT, T1 this is the Jagdpanzer4, T2 you get the Panzer IV and T3 you get the KT.
  

Tier1 - Medic truck
Units you can build:

• Obersoldaten
  460MP 20FU
  They are equipped with MP44's, you can upgrade with an LMG. The MP cost has been increased heavily, they also cost a small amount of fuel, because they come in a 250 HT now. Its a five man squad now.
  
  
• Jagdpanzer 4 [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  400MP 135FU
  Nothing changed, but is locked behind the Heavy Support upgrade now.
  
  
• Tank Hunters
  425MP
  A new squad, five men heavy. Comes with 1 panzerschreck. You can get two more panzerschrecks for 60 muni each. At vet3 they get an ability they increases the received fire on a selected vehicle for a small amount of time.
  
  
• LeiG
  350MP
  Nothing changed. But the supression should be removed, and accuracy should be lowered.
  

Upgrades:

• Retreat point
  Nothing changed.
  

Tier2 - Flak HQ
Units you can build:

• Sturmpioneer
  340MP
  Alightly better damage, can place med kits for 15 muni at vet1 and can build Riegel mines. Riegel should cost 90MU.
  
  
• Raketenwerfer
  290MP
  Has range of a normal AT gun now.
  
  
• Puma
  320MP 70FU
  Nothing changed
  
  
• Luchs
  350MP 70FU
  Nothing changed. But fuel cost slightly increased (50 to 70).
  
  
• P4 [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  360MP 135FU
  Nothing changed. But is locked behind the heavy support upgrade now.
  

The flak HQ is moved here to boost the early game a bit, also to give a more secure place to your late game vehicles (Mech truck).
If flak HQ replaces T2, the damage and supression should be lowered.

Tier3 - Mechanized truck
Units you can build:

• IR HT
  200MP 5FU
  Basicly the same unit.
  
  
• Stuka
  390MP 100FU
  Basicly the same unit.
  
  
• Panther
  490MP 175FU
  Nothing changed
  
  
• KT [HEAVY SUPPORT]
  720MP 260FU
  Nothing changed. You still need all three trucks.
  

The convert muni/fuel ability is still available to.

Please keep in mind, this is about the design!

I like the design, but Pioneers are redundant with Sturms, and Obers coming in a halftrack is weird.

But I like the overall design, especially with T0 upgrade needed to get powerful vehicles. I think Panther should require Heavy Support as well.

OKW rebuilding of tech structures should be halved. Way too punshing to rebuild a flak panzer HQ with 80 fuel to get obers/luchs/P4/panther because concentrated fire operations artillery one shotted it.

Having tested this pretty extensively, most arty can't come close to one shotting any truck. The brit base arty in particular is pretty awful against them. It takes several barrages to take down a truck.

I dont want to be bad but if you go medtruck and after thant mechanized and puma , puma will cost you 70+40 fuel = 110 OKW fuel (add penalty , -33% means you get only 66% of fuel so if enemy tank cost 100 fuel OKW tank cost 150 fuel) 110 * 150% = 165 fuel

In comparasion Russian t70 cost you 85+70 = 155 fuel
and USA sutart cost you 60 + 70 fuel (10 fuel is for ambulance - begining fuel) 130 fuel


so your puma will arrive 35 fuel after stuart (2 game minutes) and almost at same time as t 70 as long as you keep 50 %f map (whitch you should by good medictruck placement and all manpower used into AI tools - sturms , pfuss , JLI , mg 34)

All you need it to get 1 shreck so you will survive minutes of allied vehilce play.

After that that tank will die , puma will be there and you and tech for flak , while your infantry is albe to fight his because you have not wasted any MP into at (except puma) and he has no vehicle to support his assaults.

When flakHQ arrive your enemy will have max major / t4 teched and you can freely rush p2 because puma can protect it.

By this time you should have 3 volks shrecks.


And then you go p4/ panther and in the ned of day if its still stalemate you will go kingtiger to finish him off.


They key problem is players think they can survive light vehilce playpahse without light vehicle

I don't know what all should happen but the faction needs to change in such a way that it doesn't have cheap, plentiful mainline infantry units like Volks. The volks were sub-optimal very young and old men. They should be cheap to equip on up front man power cost and require munitions upgrade to get automatic weapons before they can go head to head with any vanilla allied infantry. The reinforcement cost would be higher than conscripts but lower than Gren/IS/Rifles. You might say well they will just get swept away, but in keeping with historical resemblance that they were still well motivated to fight, had some great weaponry (albeit with shortage of all manner of supplies/parts) and had a great corp of capable officers they will get zeal type abilities that can be activated for free with long cool downs as well as have a more powerful obersoldaten with a sturm offizier present in the squad to help inspire the Volks. Read some accounts of the vicious fighting in France prior to and during the Battle of the Bulge. As in the case of Caen, Hitler youth were mingled with SS regiments who had battle hardened veteran officers from the Eastern Front with them who fought tooth and nail for every inch of ground against Sherbrooke Fusiliers and Nova Scotia Highlanders.

https://legionmagazine.com/en/2010/11/murder-in-normandy-army-part-91/

http://www.canadaatwar.ca/content-21/wwii-the-battle-of-caen/

OKW needs to be in short supply of man power and fuel (not munitions as those were more easily made with material from what was available within German borders...oil not so much and because for balance purpose OKW will need reasonable munitions to keep pace) but have great zeal like abilities and a very small corp of elite officers/infantry squads to help bolster their infantry forces. Their armor overall is in a pretty good place. I think we should get rid of vet 5 as it makes units harder to balance and extra vet hardly seems thematic except maybe keep for Volks to represent they had so much room to learn as they were woefully trained/inexperienced.

Having tested this pretty extensively, most arty can't come close to one shotting any truck. The brit base arty in particular is pretty awful against them. It takes several barrages to take down a truck.

Special weapons regiment, concentrated fire artillery still oneshots OKW trucks. Easy to check in CCM.

Special weapons regiment, concentrated fire artillery still oneshots OKW trucks. Easy to check in CCM.

that's a problem with that specific off map.

I guess if anything is the biggest problem it's the manpower float. Volks would preferably cost more and no longer be single man AT squads with 4 useless members. I think giving volks, as others have suggested, an mp40 upgrade and/or panzerfaust upgrade as well as standard HE grenades and increase manpower cost, would be helpful.

Also I think it would help ease the resource allotment if light vehicles came out more. Weaker armor but with a lower fuel cost would help the manpower float from getting too high.

Finally, just a small preference but I would rather see sturmpioneers with k98s and either an AT rifle grenade or some type of molotov.