Wild Idea To Change OKW Teching

So a lot of people really, really don't like the OKW tech structure (T1 medium tank, etc). So here's a kind of crazy idea to change it up that might fix a few problems. Please read it all before jumping to any conclusions.

A few initial changes:

- OKW starting fuel to 60 from 40.
- All three OKW tech buildings can be constructed at the beginning of the game. In other words, the Schwerer Panzer HQ no longer requires one of the other two buildings to be deployed before it can be constructed.
- Buildings no longer cost any fuel to construct.
- OKW trucks are now called in by the player at a cost of 200 manpower and 60 fuel each rather than being automatically dispatched every three minutes.
- No changes whatsoever to the HQ.

And then the OKW tech tree would be changed to something like the following:

Battlegroup HQ
By itself - LeIG
With one other building constructed - Obersoldaten/LeIG
With two other buildings constructed - Jagdpanzer IV/Obersoldaten/LeIG

Mechanized HQ
By itself - Flak Halftrack
With one other building constructed - Walking Stuka/Flak Halftrack
With two other buildings constructed - Panther tank/Walking Stuka/Flak Halftrack

Schwerer Panzer HQ
By itself - Puma
With one other building constructed - Panzer II Luchs/Puma
With two other buildings constructed - Panzer IV/Panzer II Luchs/Puma

The idea is that every OKW building would actually have three "tiers" worth of units, so to speak, that would be unlocked as additional buildings are constructed.

For example, a player who just has the Battlegroup Headquarters constructed would only be able to build the LeIG (in addition to their HQ units, obviously).

Now, if the player had both the Battlegroup and Mechanized Headquarters constructed (two buildings), they would unlock all the tier one and tier two units in those two buildings. That would mean that players would be able to build LeIGs, Obersoldaten squads, Flak Halftracks, and Walking Stukas.

Alternatively, if the OKW player opted to construct the Schwerer Panzer HQ instead of the Mechanized HQ (again, two buildings unlocking two tiers worth of units), they'd have access to LeIGs, Obersoldaten squads, Pumas, and Luchs tanks.

So then if a player opted to build the Mechanized and Schwerer Panzer HQs (but not the Battlegroup HQ), they'd have access to Flak Halftracks, Pumas, Luchs tanks, and Walking Stukas.

Having all three tech buildings up would give you access to every OKW unit.

Obviously there would be some issues if you could build the Flak Truck first (because of the gun locking down large amounts of territory) and I worry that OKW tanks would arrive too late, but this scheme would solve a few issues (like the Luchs arriving a bit too late and the Jagdpanzer IV arriving too early) and make OKW teching a bit more rational. Also, it's extremely flexible.

You know, I thought you were barmy, and indeed perhaps your suggestion needs tweaking, but it sounds quite interesting. Good work. Now let the strategists pull it apart.

Maybe only activate flak gun on tier 4 when there are two/three trucks converted.

Sounds great but then fuel starvation needs to go. If you want, for example, a panther, you need to invest 180 fuel into teching, plus the 175 fuel for the panther itself and the 600 mp plus whatever the panther cost manpower wise. This isn't going to end well with such a fuel starved faction.

In the end, it will result in a fast schwere rush and put it on a fuel. Followed by volk spam with schrecks.

I do think your ideas are the right way to go, but it needs some adjustments, like you already concluded yourself: "Obviously there would be some issues if you could build the Flak Truck first (because of the gun locking down large amounts of territory) and I worry that OKW tanks would arrive too late, but this scheme would solve a few issues (like the Luchs arriving a bit too late and the Jagdpanzer IV arriving too early) and make OKW teching a bit more rational. Also, it's extremely flexible."

I have thought about OKW teching changes myself, but you sir have come across something that is a great concept!

That is an extreme nerf to OKW that would make it near impossible to play with. If they lose a single truck during set up, the game is immediately over. If they lose one afterward, they can no longer build tanks. And yet to access a basic Panzer IV, they'd need to gain the time equivalent of 473 fuel, or 412 with conversion active, although that's an impossible number to achieve because your first 20 fuel will be without conversion.

Ostheer's first Panzer IV can hit the field after 315 fuel. Both calculations are assuming no other vehicles are fielded, not even a Kubelwagen. Ostheer could buy a Puma or StuG and still field their Panzer first. A fast Sherman or Cromwell would be impossible to counter with any armoured vehicles. You also seem to have removed the IR Half-Track from the game, probably not intentional.

It's an interesting idea, but as AngryKitten said, this would not work with fuel starving and even without it would hurt. At least with the penalty gone, a Panzer IV would hit the field at the same cost as the Ostheer variant, 315 (coincidence?).

Sounds great but then fuel starvation needs to go. If you want, for example, a panther, you need to invest 180 fuel into teching, plus the 175 fuel for the panther itself and the 600 mp plus whatever the panther cost manpower wise. This isn't going to end well with such a fuel starved faction.

Disagree. The resources starvation is the faction's flavor, eather we like it or not.
But I think that these days OKW is ready to receive 80% amo and 80% fuel also. Not entirely eliminate the fuel penalty, but reduce it a little. That would be appropriate in my view.

It would need a lot of tweaking but the concept looks very interesting to play.

Relic could try this in a balance preview patch.

You also seem to have removed the IR Half-Track from the game, probably not intentional.

Schwerer "you can't go here anymore" in 2nd or 3rd minute of the game?
What could possibly go wrong?

Shwerer,schwerer everywhere

Inability to rush jagdpanzer would destroy OKW.

Inability to rush jagdpanzer would destroy OKW.

Inability to rush any vehicle but puma or flak halftrack would RIP OKW forever and in pieces.

Being forced to tech through all tech trees in order to get one tank out sounds horrible.

Also schwere panzer HQ as the first building is stupidly frustrating for your opponent.

Losing one truck results in a loss. You could effectively cripple the complete okw lategame by just destroying one truck.

Moreover, you unlock all your tanks at the same moment, but that doesn't help you as you just will have fuel for one tank - which is also stupid.

12 min Centaur RIP OKW, 14 min KV8 RIP OKW. No Jp4 at that time just RIP

if they could build a halftrack for mobile reinforcement that would be enough, its a completly other way to play then. i made a small mod which adds the ostheer ht and everytime i play i begin to dream what it's like they have already added this unit to okw.

Being able to build Schwerer first is just non sense

The general idea is interesting, but it would need some tweaking.

Maybe they trucks should get units based on the types of trucks that have been built. (meaning they won't have to be alive)

More fuel income would be needed to stop them from being murdered

The flack truck would probably need a slight gun nerf to stop it from totally locking down a start area without any opposition

So a lot of people really, really don't like the OKW tech structure (T1 medium tank, etc). So here's a kind of crazy idea to change it up that might fix a few problems. Please read it all before jumping to any conclusions.

A few initial changes:

- OKW starting fuel to 60 from 40.
- All three OKW tech buildings can be constructed at the beginning of the game. In other words, the Schwerer Panzer HQ no longer requires one of the other two buildings to be deployed before it can be constructed.
- Buildings no longer cost any fuel to construct.
- OKW trucks are now called in by the player at a cost of 200 manpower and 60 fuel each rather than being automatically dispatched every three minutes.
- No changes whatsoever to the HQ.

And then the OKW tech tree would be changed to something like the following:

Battlegroup HQ
By itself - LeIG
With one other building constructed - Obersoldaten/LeIG
With two other buildings constructed - Jagdpanzer IV/Obersoldaten/LeIG

Mechanized HQ
By itself - Flak Halftrack
With one other building constructed - Walking Stuka/Flak Halftrack
With two other buildings constructed - Panther tank/Walking Stuka/Flak Halftrack

Schwerer Panzer HQ
By itself - Puma
With one other building constructed - Panzer II Luchs/Puma
With two other buildings constructed - Panzer IV/Panzer II Luchs/Puma

The idea is that every OKW building would actually have three "tiers" worth of units, so to speak, that would be unlocked as additional buildings are constructed.

For example, a player who just has the Battlegroup Headquarters constructed would only be able to build the LeIG (in addition to their HQ units, obviously).

Now, if the player had both the Battlegroup and Mechanized Headquarters constructed (two buildings), they would unlock all the tier one and tier two units in those two buildings. That would mean that players would be able to build LeIGs, Obersoldaten squads, Flak Halftracks, and Walking Stukas.

Alternatively, if the OKW player opted to construct the Schwerer Panzer HQ instead of the Mechanized HQ (again, two buildings unlocking two tiers worth of units), they'd have access to LeIGs, Obersoldaten squads, Pumas, and Luchs tanks.

So then if a player opted to build the Mechanized and Schwerer Panzer HQs (but not the Battlegroup HQ), they'd have access to Flak Halftracks, Pumas, Luchs tanks, and Walking Stukas.

Having all three tech buildings up would give you access to every OKW unit.

Obviously there would be some issues if you could build the Flak Truck first (because of the gun locking down large amounts of territory) and I worry that OKW tanks would arrive too late, but this scheme would solve a few issues (like the Luchs arriving a bit too late and the Jagdpanzer IV arriving too early) and make OKW teching a bit more rational. Also, it's extremely flexible.

removed flak trucks gun and maybe

I think the idea is quite interesting. It would be fun to try it out in the balance preview mod.

About the Schwerer problem: How about activating the main gun after a second HQ is deployed and implementing the ability to move the HQ´s? (Like the Brit HQ´s in CoH 1)

I thought the best way to deal with the Flak gun would be to have to pay to unlock it (maybe 20-ish fuel and some manpower). So sort of like unlocking the Forward Retreat Point for the Med Truck.

I realized when I wrote this that I removed the IR Halftrack from the game. I just wasn't sure where to put it - it could probably go anywhere and the impact on balance would be minimal.

numbers aside, i think this is quite interesting and functional. i really really like the general principle.

if relic does this, add one more base type that is solely based on improving units like vcoh wher and ill die a happy man.

And tiger will be unlocked at same time as p4. great logic :/