[Balance Preview] Pack Howitzer vs Infantry Gun
13 Oct 2015, 05:22 AM
#21
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Instead of experimenting relic just needs to revert the changes.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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13 Oct 2015, 05:25 AM
#22
Posts: 166
The MG34 is terrible at the moment, and the doctrines that have it are pretty terrible as well. Falls die too fast atm
Fals are not supposed to be your main infantry. They're glass cannons... glass cannons made of some pretty tough glass.
Also, isn't OKW supposed to be weak early game. They're extremely difficult to counter in late game so I'm thinking this should be the case.
13 Oct 2015, 06:06 AM
#23
Posts: 1384
The suppression/pinning stuff is the thing that pisses me off. Why does it need it when it regularly kills guys?
13 Oct 2015, 06:22 AM
#24
Posts: 1653
People keep saying that OKW needs the LiG to make up for their lack of a HMG but most OKW players play a commander that provides them one. People also seem to forget the Kubelwagon.
The gun kills better than the best Soviet mortars of the same value and also instantly suppresses units making infiltration tactics impossible on smaller maps and massing infantry to counter OKW blobs near impossible on all maps.
Only because they're the nicest commanders for OKW with the best utilities. Like fortification doc with Pak43 and bunkers and s-mines
13 Oct 2015, 09:19 AM
#25
8 Posts: 2470
relic added the suppression because the lieg and pack howitzer were shit. it wasn't enough so they added the accuracy buff on top of it and we have their current iteration. clearly the accuracy is the issue.
that said, giving them suppression on the barrage only would separate them from the other crew artillery and make them a lot less annoying.
i also want the pen on the lieg reduced as they soft counter tanks right now.
that said, giving them suppression on the barrage only would separate them from the other crew artillery and make them a lot less annoying.
i also want the pen on the lieg reduced as they soft counter tanks right now.
13 Oct 2015, 13:51 PM
#26
Posts: 403
relic added the suppression because the lieg and pack howitzer were shit. it wasn't enough so they added the accuracy buff on top of it and we have their current iteration. clearly the accuracy is the issue.
When did they add accuracy? Because as I am reading through the patch notes, I can't find anything about it, I gave up when I got to 2014, unless of course you still want to use a buff at that time as an argument
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.
13 Oct 2015, 14:31 PM
#27
Posts: 83
Relic seems to have to nerf sides in order to prevent people from crying..but breaking balance as a cost. As you mentioned the howie is expensive and doesn't preform as well, also you can't spam them. The ISG is godlike and cheap. So what does relic do? Nerf both of them.
The volk incendiary grenade is really good, so what do they do? Nerf it and the moltov.
All to prevent people from crying, at the cost of real balance.
The volk incendiary grenade is really good, so what do they do? Nerf it and the moltov.
All to prevent people from crying, at the cost of real balance.
13 Oct 2015, 15:48 PM
#28
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently BannedAll my friends tell me they refuse to play germans anymore, they say all their units are just nerfed down and mediocre and theres nothing fun about them. Allies have all the good abusable units. Gotta say I somewhat agree with them. This is what happens when you just keep nerfing one side and simultaneously buffing the other. Its called a disparity. But lelics never gonna learn.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
13 Oct 2015, 15:51 PM
#29
Posts: 1653
Relic is indeed nerfing the shit out of axis units. 4 patches in a row... and buffing a veey small part of it.
13 Oct 2015, 16:01 PM
#30
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
The Pack Howie will be bad and is non-sensical. Some of the points mentioned in this thread (pop cap, range) demonstrate that.
Omega(?) had a good thread about this unit a while back that pointed out the issue is it is trying to be two units in one and failing at both. Either make it an arty piece dependent on the barrage, or make it a free firing unit dependent on good positioning. Doing both means it can't be good at either or it will instantly become OP (as it now stands).
The suppression thing I can live with if this units role was better defined. Currently it basically tries to be a heavy arty gun with too little damage and AoE to do that, and far too little range to provide close support (once it gets patched).
Omega(?) had a good thread about this unit a while back that pointed out the issue is it is trying to be two units in one and failing at both. Either make it an arty piece dependent on the barrage, or make it a free firing unit dependent on good positioning. Doing both means it can't be good at either or it will instantly become OP (as it now stands).
The suppression thing I can live with if this units role was better defined. Currently it basically tries to be a heavy arty gun with too little damage and AoE to do that, and far too little range to provide close support (once it gets patched).
13 Oct 2015, 16:46 PM
#31
Posts: 57
The MG34 is terrible at the moment, and the doctrines that have it are pretty terrible as well. Falls die too fast atm, and fortifications just loses to indirect fire. Kubel can be really risky as well against carriers and clown cars.
Plz nerf the LeiG but OKW really needs sumtin...
The Falls are a glass canon used and should be used as such, if they get a survivability buff, then they would need to get a dps nerf; because they have a really high dps at all ranges, Whereas the allied equivalent(commandoes, who are being nerfed vigorously) are squishy and only work at close range, yet come with a higher price tag(unless you use vanguard, where you need to pay 540mp to access them), can be shot down, and need a landing field(where the Falls just pop out of a building insta and ruins Yuri's day).
What the OKW need is a non-doctrinal MG34 and having the Kübel moved to the docs that have the MGs. This would do wonders IMO. With regard to MG34 and its performance, it costs 210mp, which is like - the same price as a sapper squad. I'd like to think that it gets the job done for that price. If this does not help buff the suppression a little and make it more expensive.
"War is Hell"
13 Oct 2015, 17:13 PM
#32
Posts: 2070
The Falls are a glass canon used and should be used as such, if they get a survivability buff, then they would need to get a dps nerf; because they have a really high dps at all ranges, Whereas the allied equivalent(commandoes, who are being nerfed vigorously) are squishy and only work at close range, yet come with a higher price tag(unless you use vanguard, where you need to pay 540mp to access them), can be shot down, and need a landing field(where the Falls just pop out of a building insta and ruins Yuri's day).
What the OKW need is a non-doctrinal MG34 and having the Kübel moved to the docs that have the MGs. This would do wonders IMO. With regard to MG34 and its performance, it costs 210mp, which is like - the same price as a sapper squad. I'd like to think that it gets the job done for that price. If this does not help buff the suppression a little and make it more expensive.
i support OKW getting a non-doc mg. however, mg34 plus leig backup would be unstoppable. your opponent would never touch your mgs because the leig would cripple them.
Axis doesn't have the best AT options in the game
13 Oct 2015, 18:06 PM
#33
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
When did they add accuracy? Because as I am reading through the patch notes, I can't find anything about it, I gave up when I got to 2014, unless of course you still want to use a buff at that time as an argument
Not in changelogs, ninja change. Someone said they cut scatter by half.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
13 Oct 2015, 18:29 PM
#34
Posts: 57
i support OKW getting a non-doc mg. however, mg34 plus leig backup would be unstoppable. your opponent would never touch your mgs because the leig would cripple them.
Agreed, I think the leIG should have it's suppression removed, it's range mirrored to the pack, and an accuracy nerf, so it's like pre Brits, but without the suppression. If this happened, it would function more like a mortar instead of the massively broken unit it is at the moment. This would also promote combined arms instead of spamming ^^
"War is Hell"
16 Oct 2015, 03:18 AM
#35
Posts: 758
lol that wud be nice i rly hate the pew pew gun. it kills my guys way too easily
16 Oct 2015, 03:34 AM
#36
Posts: 6
When did they add accuracy? Because as I am reading through the patch notes, I can't find anything about it, I gave up when I got to 2014, unless of course you still want to use a buff at that time as an argument
It was a ninja buff: http://www.coh2.org/topic/42404/another-bug-%26-balance-list
16 Oct 2015, 04:04 AM
#37
Posts: 166
What the OKW need is a non-doctrinal MG34 and having the Kübel moved to the docs that have the MGs. This would do wonders IMO. With regard to MG34 and its performance, it costs 210mp, which is like - the same price as a sapper squad. I'd like to think that it gets the job done for that price. If this does not help buff the suppression a little and make it more expensive.
OKW having HMG Suppression and LiG suppression is overpowered.
26 Oct 2015, 12:36 PM
#38
Posts: 1220
relic pls fix this
27 Oct 2015, 00:11 AM
#39
Posts: 14
This is also very ironic because the Pack Howitzer outranged the LeiG 18 by over twice as much in real life, in-game it's strange that a short barreled Infantry Gun has much better range than a Pack Howitzer.
Yeah, who could have thought a long barrel HOWITZER out ranged a short barrel infantry support gun in real life. GG Lelic.
Love how the ISG got the Pack Howitzer completely SCREWED with the Lelic sledgehammer of nerfdom. All the Pack Howitzer needed was supression/pin reduction or removal and a buff to long range fire and removal of its large deadzone preventing short range fire.
Yeah, who could have thought a long barrel HOWITZER out ranged a short barrel infantry support gun in real life. GG Lelic.
Love how the ISG got the Pack Howitzer completely SCREWED with the Lelic sledgehammer of nerfdom. All the Pack Howitzer needed was supression/pin reduction or removal and a buff to long range fire and removal of its large deadzone preventing short range fire.
27 Oct 2015, 01:33 AM
#40
Posts: 1954
From what I've heard from the stat diggers, the Pack howi is better than the LeIg cause it has a much larger AoE, but OKW is less manpower starved than USF so OKW can build more LeIgs and get them sooner.
This is why balancing should never be done using a spreadsheet. When playing the actual game, the LeIG is better. It has less scatter, does more insta-pins, and often snipes snipers. The pack howie is good for damaging more models and probably gets more wipes but neither of them wipe full-health squads very often.
The annoying thing about both of them is that they're not fun to use, but if you don't, the other player will use their cheese and you will lose. The game goes from one broken unit to the next.
OKW player :"I better get two LeIG's before that Brit SOB gets his Centaur out"
UKF player :"Sweet, I got the Centaur out and am going to punish that noob LeIG player!"
OKW player :"Damn, needed to cheese him off the map before the Centaur came out, hope I survive until the Panther."
OKW player :"Sweet, got the Panther out, need to kill the Centaur and win before the damned croc comes out......Damn, croc is out. I'm gardened!"
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