grenadier/panzergrenadier lack of survivability

They don't need a fifth man. That said, I think their veterancy bonuses should be on-par with Allied infantry units. Riflemen have much better bonuses right now, and I'm not sure that should be the case.

The very moment grens utilities and weapon upgrades will be locked behind optional side techs.

Also, before the changes, rifles were most expensive mainline infantry with worst scaling in game by far, they were only buffed to actually be on pair with other units for cost effectiveness in late game as they couldn't keep up-they were fine early game, but were just an attrition grinder in late.

Allied infantry are supposed to be superior due to Ost having the best support weapons and tanks. Why should they get the best infantry as well? The issue with survivability is how easily squads can get RNG one shotted by AOE such as HE Shermans or T-34/85's. I think Tank anti infantry needs to be toned down and more consistent rather then missing three times followed by an instantly killing 3-4 models.

axis infantry need not necessarily be superior, however currently they are just simply far inferior.

too many one shots/models getting pwned, sherman round will kill two models instantly almost every time.

First off, the vet buffs didn't increase DPS. Second, removing that would be like just removing Cons' Oorah! - it is incredibly defining to the unit.

well Oorah don't complete negate the german defense, smoke does, i am ok with shock have smoke as it is expansive and non spammable unit, however rifleman can be spammed also their smoke have super long range and huge area effect, so they can spam their smoke nade, one game I was dig in with OKW, the area cover with 3 bunkers 2 HMG, flak HQ, and a pak 43 and a panther, USF rifle blob just rush in and used 3 smoke completely cover their path and run in nade the pak43 to decrew it then attack ground with bazooka and killed flak HQ before smoke is gone, then they rush their 2 jackson to force off my panther. i don't know what i can do to stop rifle blob rush heavy defence position and smoke everything and kill every defense structure to with bazooka attack ground, bunker, HMG, Flak are all anti blob and it was complete useless against rifle blob.

If he's spending munitions on rifle smoke and grenades, he won't have much for bars/bazookas.

This is where units like the flak or flame halftrack shine.

I'd like to see Grens with a 5th model.

If he's spending munitions on rifle smoke and grenades, he won't have much for bars/bazookas.

This is where units like the flak or flame halftrack shine.

Usf smoke only 15 muni

Giving Ost 6 man squads would really screw over Soviets.

Allied infantry are supposed to be superior due to Ost having the best support weapons and tanks. Why should they get the best infantry as well? The issue with survivability is how easily squads can get RNG one shotted by AOE such as HE Shermans or T-34/85's. I think Tank anti infantry needs to be toned down and more consistent rather then missing three times followed by an instantly killing 3-4 models.

While i can understand your position its much easier to simply increase grens to 5 man squads. or at least have an upgrade to do so. the only way to prevent 1 shots as you suggest is reduce every single tanks aoe to 1.5. and then they become crap so you need to decrease tne scatter and then you have tank snipers.

If you think this will not happen look at the leigh.

Allied weaker vehicles make up for being weak with hyper cost efficiency in some cases. Also 5 men upgrade for grens and panzergrenadiers for like 200 mp 40 fuel at BP3 would be an incentive for more people to go t4 as ost and justify its cost as most expensive t4 in the game.

While i can understand your position its much easier to simply increase grens to 5 man squads. or at least have an upgrade to do so. the only way to prevent 1 shots as you suggest is reduce every single tanks aoe to 1.5. and then they become crap so you need to decrease tne scatter and then you have tank snipers.

They could also buff tank MGs in compensation, which frankly I'd be entirely happy with for keeping the one-shots down.

Would also require dramatic vet changes though since then infantry vet actually would greatly aid their survivability against tanks, tanks would probably have to get their reload and scatter bonuses compensated with vet causing their MGs being changed into a similar-but-far-more-accurate version (a bit like how Pack Howi used to fire HEAT rounds all the time once they hit vet 2).

Would not fix grenades, though.

There, fixed it for ya.

There, fixed it for ya.

youre one of the biggest axis whinekids on these boards.

Usf smoke only 15 muni

It adds up if you're using it a lot. Especially with regular grenades which are 25.

It adds up if you're using it a lot. Especially with regular grenades which are 25.

it is still very cheap price to use to force off german HMG or anything or bypass german bunkers. yes smoke is 15, nades are 25 but compare to german nades which is all 30mu+, it is cheap. image you see a german bunker covering a flank, your rifle with a bazooka, you can smoke and run behind the bunker and kill it. so it cost you 15mu and maybe u can add 60mu for bazooka to trade off a 150mp+60mu bunker. don't tell me you think it is not worth it works same against Flak HT or HQ, smoke attack ground with bazooka is either force off or destroy. also if against HMG if other person didn't pay enough attention, your 15mu smoke +25mu nade may result you wipe a HMG 42 team and take it for your self. I don't see any reason not spamming it when face flak HQ, HMG team Flak HT or HMG bunker,

also we are talking about late game. in late game USF have no worries in munitions to spamming it to easily destroy/negate german defence, also rifle smoke is super long range and covers the entire path compare the shock the not very big area.

it is still very cheap price to use to force off german HMG

Doesn't force it off, just move it back a few meters.

Doesn't force it off, just move it back a few meters.

if it is HMG 42 and react fast yes, if it is HMG 34 then pretty much it is force off as it won't pin fast enough. it is very hard to HMG to move back and setup again and pin the approaching infantry as those rifleman are closing fast.

We had more survivable grens last patch (15% more survivable if I remember correctly) and they were incredibly OP and by far the most cost effective infantry in the game. Grens are fine the way they are.

Pgrens I agree need some tweaking. Not sure about specifics of the changes but they need to be cost effective to the point it makes sense to do something like 3gren/mg/2pgrens. Maybe a slight cost decrease would do the trick, or maybe buffing the G43.

youre one of the biggest axis whinekids on these boards.

My "whinings" started mainly after british faction launch because obvious reason: IMBALANCE.
I loved the almost perfect state of balance before this broken, money making faction with blatantly OP units defended only by scubs was launched. No whining then from me, and I think that 99% of honest people around here can agree with me regarding balance before brits launching.

But that's just me, I can't shut up when I see my favorite game being destroyed by sales figures.

What si hilarious is that some of the brits OP units "defenders" are the one who complained about many of OKW units at WFA launch for exactly the same reasons, but now they love to see wipe-everything units for the brits.

It's realy a miracle for me how this game is still going on like this with Relic constantly disappointing this game's fans. Just look at their solutions: brits are performing to well. Hmm... let's buff a little the other allied factions so the fans won'tbe jalous on brits. Let's nerf brits for just a bit, still letting them some cheese strategies and units.... Ups, that "bit" was to much, let's keep those cheese strategies and units and re-buff some of the nerfed ones (like universal carrier's flamethrower).

This isn't going anywhere, and will only result in: 1. totaly nerf the british faction until it will become nearly umplayable (like OKW was not so long ago); 2. keep it OP and screw balance.

And one of the biggest problem is - I dare to say - the fact that they are listening to community to much. Relic, you don't listen to community when you just launched a cheesee faction bought by so many scrubs. Because they will instantly cry when losing every bit of their OPness.