October Balance Preview

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2015, 19:58 PMMr. Someguy

I did test them, they're not bad but I don't suppose they're excellent either. From an ambush they still beat Panzergrenadiers with only 2 model loses, as opposed to no model losses. StG Obersoldaten are no longer easy targets though, and they cannot be ambushed because their IR Rifles detect the Commandos forcing the British to either force an attack and lose, or retreat. They will lose to Vet 3 Panzergrenadiers, but I don't consider that a bad thing because wiping Vet 3 Panzergrenadiers with ease is bullshit

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2015, 04:15 AMGloating Ghost

Here's my feedback on the balance patch, these are all opinions from 1v1/2v2/3v3 inhouse games with friends:

Centaur: Feels like it's in a good place now, can still wreck infantry but isn't over the top like before.

Flame damage vs garrisons: Feels better as well

Flame vehicles: WASP buff is great, was not performing with a 90 muni cost before with 6 dmg. Croc dmg nerf is justified though new armour value isn't (see churchills below)

Air Superiority: Nerfed wrong values... needs a 25-50% less damage vs emplacements, especially OKW trucks since they can be 1 shot with this ability. You really should be punished if you keep ANY unit in the AoE of this 320 Muni ability. Nerfing the AoE radius of the bombs still wont fix the problems most people had with this ability.

Heavy Artillery: 25% dmg nerf to buildings is an unnecessary change. Artillery already is underwhelming IMO due to its accuracy, only useful with anvil upgrade. If you let an IS or a 50 cal sniper get in range of your production trucks and buildings for an arty call in, you should be punished for it.

Pack Howi and LeIG: New firing arc is nice but barrage nerf is not. Players should be rewarded for a skillful barrages on blobs. IMO should have more suppression during barrages and should be the only time these guns pin squads. Guns should also pin if squads already suppressed by MGs. The role these weapons should have is to suppress approaching squads in the open which was what they were achieving in the past. Revert stats to pre-OP stats of both guns, buff barrages and keep the higher firing arc. I would also like to see them remove the auto turning and firing to make this unit more micro intensive.

IS section reinforce: Seems like a nice change. I feel like now I can have more than 2 IS squads if I wish to play an inf heavy game without being harshly punished by reinforcing.

Commandos Sten guns: Way overnerfed, If you want to keep them at this performance then their initial call in has to be cheaper in both the vanguard and commando regiment. 500/540+350MP is WAY too much for a squad which need heavy micro to use aggressively (moving them from cover to cover to get close to squads). Not to mention IR halftracks reveal stealth units and prevent them from using ambush bonus which makes them pretty much useless now. It's a nice dynamic how vanguard glider is defensive while commando glider is offensive and can disrupt a defensive line of team weapons. However, spending 500 MP to aggressively deploy a glider which will definitely take damage and lose it's reinforce ability on landing or during the engagement only for the squad to not have much shock value and bleed models on a well placed call in is disappointing. Here are my proposed changes 1) Change fire rate to 22 and keep MP costs 2) Keep nerfed stats, Reduce all MP of all glider call ins. P.S Also need to add their light gammon bomb needs to be on the level of Axis bundle nades. It seems like they do more damage than any nade in the game.

Churchill Tanks: Overnerfed, feels like Relic is unsure what role they want these tanks to fill, here are the choices I would make for it. 1) Make it a non-RNG dmg sponge which keeps the 1600HP, which needs 2 AT shots before fausted and changes the armour to 200. 2) A more 'standard' heavy tank with a mix of good armour (240-280) and decent HP (1400). As for the croc and AVRE variant, I believe they should have less HP and slightly less armour than normal Churchills. Also should add the defensive nades need to have same stats as mills bomb nades. Right now tank nades AoE seems huge.

Forward Assemblies: I'm surprised people aren't mentioning how easy it is to destroy these. One CAS AT strafe will kill it at full health which means a 120 Muni trade for a 400 (450?) MP if the retreat point has been bought. Needs either a 50% health buff and the Brace ability or a significant health buff of around 100-200%.
{etc.}

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2015, 08:22 AMQuercus

Great post and a lot of thoughtful changes suggested.

It does seem odd that rather than a gradual stepping down of supposedly OP units, Relic overdoes things and then steps them back up to get the right balance.
In both the case of the commando dps and Churchill armour it seems like they need to reduce the changes by 50% to get the right balance.

With these balance previews, do they read the responses here and adjust them before they put the patch live or is it pretty much a done deal?

It is also a shame that they don't appear to be acting on any other complaints players have expressed about the shortcomings of the British with regard to the deep flaws with their emplacements, which are supposed to be a mainstay of their faction.

I don't actually like the Commando glider call in as it stands - in the original CoH game it was a straight decent to the landing point, so you could choose to land behind it away from the enemy to keep their presence hidden. But now it circles the battlefield before landing so you might as well have a neon sign pop up to your opponents announcing that the commandoes are coming so they can prepare their counters.

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2015, 20:32 PMDullahan

You totally can.

Jump back to quoted post10 Oct 2015, 20:18 PMbicho1

you are so right for example: german players use it when its ez for them to use it .
why USF zooks arent buffed and same dmg like shreks [german player: cos in ww2 zooks werent so strong like shreks !!! history m8

when alliec get buffed they suddenly forget about history and cry about alliec being op guys stop it
if we want it to be an historical game alliec players need to out number the german players by 10-1

Jump back to quoted post12 Oct 2015, 15:36 PMRollo

good, I'm tired of playing against those things every single game like the old flamer HT.

It should be a specialist unit to help on urban maps, not a shock unit to help you burn all the enemies volks, AT guns and base structures in the blink of an eye.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2015, 17:50 PM_GarbageMan_

For the cost of it, it's definitely not worth just having it linger around in the back with the new nerf. An AT gun and a schreck and faust will kill it in seconds when combined just like any other tank. Its a rather weak tank and the range is rather limited.

If you are keeping all your guys alone to face it, that's you're fault and should be punished.

But you win because no one is going to build anyways now with the nerf.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2015, 16:53 PM__deleted__

show me replay that:
a)is from 1 vs 1
b)is agains clever opponent with good awareness and strategy
c)you played Brits and build 2 emplacements (or one)
d)you won

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2015, 22:43 PMClassyDavid

This is a game against Migrefla (who is a good player) where I do use emplacements to good effect. Even with some sloppy plays by me heh.
Watch here..

The thing about mortar pits (which I do actually like to a degree) is the toughness and trouble the enemy has to go through to destroy it with normal mortars and Liegs. If they are bombarding that position while yours is still supporting you have an advantage and can push them off. Leading you to repair and refit.

It's always about good placement. Keep a mortar pits back where it can support a VP or two and it'll force the Axis player to move up and attack it. I do admit it does require a decent amount of trouble and some rng to keep it repaired and protected.

On Topic: Churchill change is not as bad as I previously thought after some more games with it. Still gives medium tanks and lighter a thrashing but now dedicated anti-tank guns will have a easier time dealing with it.

KV - 8 was good. Still a massive threat to infantry on flanks, in buildings, and surprise attacks. Not quite wipe everything it use to be but the building damage to infantry is still high.

Jump back to quoted post13 Oct 2015, 22:43 PMClassyDavid

The thing about mortar pits (which I do actually like to a degree) is the toughness and trouble the enemy has to go through to destroy it with normal mortars and Liegs.

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2015, 03:05 AMAladdin

you either play another game or prob never seen how Ost mortar ht works! FailFish

killig the mortar pit in one incendiary barrage, or having it super quick wiped by two ISG barrages, in only one push

and yes Ost mortar half truck has to go through a lot of trouble to kill the mortar pit!!! kappa

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2015, 19:05 PMtiyq

Update !
Balance Preview Updated 10/14/2015

LEIG / Pak Howitzer
Barrage Reload changes reverted
No Longer can auto face

Jump back to quoted post15 Oct 2015, 05:09 AMAladdin

So the ISG/Pak Howitzers stay the same annoying things?!!!

That's not gonna fix the game breaking effect of these units right?

plus you can always attack move the so that they will auto face, and in a 2v2 match or more, it does not matter if they auto face or not because they almost face one side all the time.

I just wish Relic would make them to what they were before

Jump back to quoted post14 Oct 2015, 04:12 AMTehPowahOfWub

Churchill Armor & HP - I think the standard Churchill nerf was way too excessive, it should have kept the same HP and armour as it has now. It's not a terribly effective unit - it's slow and its gun is unimpressive. It's main utility was to be an expensive unit that can screen for other tanks, and if lost it was a hefty investment down the sh*tter. I forsee this unit losing any credibility in the meta, which is a shame because the concept behind it is very unique and fun. The thing I would have done instead would to be slightly raise the fuel cost, say to 165-170, but keep everything else as is. The specialist variants could use an armour reduction to about 240 or so, but 280 to 200 is just way too severe for any of these vehicles.

Constructive critique is welcome on my post.