old CoH fan, how does CoH2 compare?

I like CoH2 better. I started with CoH1 a little before 2 game out. CoH2 wins for me because it doesn't rely as heavily on targeting tables. In CoH2, if you maneuver a tank behind an AT-gun and start blasting the crew in the face, you get rewarded for better unit positioning and micro. In CoH1, you get punished because targeting tables say "lol noob, AT-guns counter tanks, nice try, lol."

Don't forget the whole SSSS shenanigan, against experienced player you as well say Company of Snipers.

was that all in the matches which COH2.ORG youtube channel uploaded about SNF4?

I trust you are right. Now I never played coh1 competitively but were those strat in that last coh1 patch that everybody heralds as the great patch? 2.7023042130123 whatever the hell it is?

in OCF broadcast, I saw just as much of variety as how many strat you pointed out. and a hella more from good players if you count casts from imperial dane, atr3uh, computer heat, tight rope, machine and his buddy, ami, devils brigade and on and on and on.

That was just throughout 2.602 so SNF3-4 some of the GR.org tournaments and general automatch trends

Listen, I've watched this thread get essentially dominated by Basilone's posts. Parts of what he has written is true but the majority of what he writes is simply his opinion (and wrong IMHO).

Try the game. Make up your own mind. That's the only way to really know how it compares for you, because I can tell you Basilone's opinions are nowhere close to mine or most of the playerbase of Coh2.

But don't trust me... simply take a look at his post history going back over the months to see what he and others have said in response. It's eye opening.

I've said several times that team games in coh2 is basically on par with coh1, but 1v1 is much more limited and I don't see anyone could dispute that. I've played over a 1000 games (probably over half in the first 6 months) but enough lately to speak from experience rather than some random coh1 player just bashing the game based on how they didn't like the beta.

1v1 sucks in coh2 thats true( if we compare it with vcoh's 1v1 ofc), teams games much better in coh2, sure it's my opinion but i think many ppl gonna agree with that

I played a 1v1 game in vCoH some time ago and the British player spamed emplacements on half of the map and was barraging my base with arty non stop. :/ I won but it took almost an hour because of this and was not fun.

hmm, so does anybody want to summarize the current meta for me?

In 1v1 or in larger?

let's start with 1v1.

I have a friend who is interested in 2v2. Some folks have suggested that it is as good as vCoH, which is promising. I'm tempted to go vCoH for 1v1 and CoH2 for 2v2. Any thoughts?

Going to leave my opinion here then, Im not going to express my opinion on team games since I was never was a 2v2,3v3 or 4v4 player but rather my input in the 1v1.

I think that vCoH was better and ill state why, now that people can't discard my argument with the old excuse of "you dont play coh2 at a high level". First of all the strategy depth in both commanders AND teching is shallow at best in CoH2, I can expect the same openings every game regardless of what happens in the game because they are simply going to be the best openings/Strats.

Commanders:
picking a doctrine in vcoh was an important decision which changed your vision on how you would play that game, each doctrine had two trees which you could choose from and the path you choose was important too, so you could have the option to put the points where you wanted them. Although ill admit relic gave up on the game so all you would see was infantry doctrine for the US faction like 99% of the time but that was something that could be fixed with patching (im saying this because its being talked a lot here the diversity of strategies). In CoH2 however almost all the commanders feel like they are trying to offer a bit of everything and no specialization, no choices whatsoever after picking them plus the fact that many of the abilities feel bland makes it that its more of a choice between the best commander overall than the best commander for the situation you are in.

Teching:
Teching in vCoH led to some interesting mind wars that maybe the usual viewer wasnt aware while watching SNF4 but it actually had a lot of diversity in that sense (I also dont believe you saw a lot of diversity in strategies in OCF especially for the USF faction, basically rush m20 all games), so what teching am I talking here? Well ill use US for the example, you could go with 3 general opening with diversification in each, you had the wsc rush which allowed for a fast sniper,four rifles into BARs, fast m8, grenades + triage center (equivalent of the ambulance for those that dont know vcoh) and some more opening variants depending on how many engineers you built. it's not just about is he going fast BARs or m8, obviously you saw a lot of that on SNF4 because they were what you could call the safer strategies which is what you are going to use in a very high level torney where you dont want to risk it. For me in vcoh it felt you had choices on what you wanted to do with the teching and it would highly impact the game, in CoH2 however I can expect the same teching every game for every faction which makes it much easier to predict, is he USF? then you will probably see m20 rush, is he OKW? 3 to 4 volksgrenadiers into ISG and infantry spam all around, is he soviets? cons spam into into t70 with KV8 coming later on in conjunction with AT guns. This is what I mean, vCoH was more about the teching choices you made AND how you used your army effectively ,CoH2 is more about how you use your army effectively and its missing the teching mind wars that vCoH very much had.

That's my opinion feel free to disagree with it.

Going to leave my opinion here then, Im not going to express my opinion on team games since I was never was a 2v2,3v3 or 4v4 player but rather my input in the 1v1.

I think that vCoH was better and ill state why, now that people can't discard my argument with the old excuse of "you dont play coh2 at a high level". First of all the strategy depth in both commanders AND teching is shallow at best in CoH2, I can expect the same openings every game regardless of what happens in the game because they are simply going to be the best openings/Strats.

Commanders:
picking a doctrine in vcoh was an important decision which changed your vision on how you would play that game, each doctrine had two trees which you could choose from and the path you choose was important too, so you could have the option to put the points where you wanted them. Although ill admit relic gave up on the game so all you would see was infantry doctrine for the US faction like 99% of the time but that was something that could be fixed with patching (im saying this because its being talked a lot here the diversity of strategies). In CoH2 however almost all the commanders feel like they are trying to offer a bit of everything and no specialization, no choices whatsoever after picking them plus the fact that many of the abilities feel bland makes it that its more of a choice between the best commander overall than the best commander for the situation you are in.

Teching:
Teching in vCoH led to some interesting mind wars that maybe the usual viewer wasnt aware while watching SNF4 but it actually had a lot of diversity in that sense (I also dont believe you saw a lot of diversity in strategies in OCF especially for the USF faction, basically rush m20 all games), so what teching am I talking here? Well ill use US for the example, you could go with 3 general opening with diversification in each, you had the wsc rush which allowed for a fast sniper,four rifles into BARs, fast m8, grenades + triage center (equivalent of the ambulance for those that dont know vcoh) and some more opening variants depending on how many engineers you built. it's not just about is he going fast BARs or m8, obviously you saw a lot of that on SNF4 because they were what you could call the safer strategies which is what you are going to use in a very high level torney where you dont want to risk it. For me in vcoh it felt you had choices on what you wanted to do with the teching and it would highly impact the game, in CoH2 however I can expect the same teching every game for every faction which makes it much easier to predict, is he USF? then you will probably see m20 rush, is he OKW? 3 to 4 volksgrenadiers into ISG and infantry spam all around, is he soviets? cons spam into into t70 with KV8 coming later on in conjunction with AT guns. This is what I mean, vCoH was more about the teching choices you made AND how you used your army effectively ,CoH2 is more about how you use your army effectively and its missing the teching mind wars that vCoH very much had.

That's my opinion feel free to disagree with it.

I fully agree with you.

so I was a DoW2 fan and the Elite mod has rebalanced and significantly improved the game, is there any possibility of a community mod for vCoH or CoH2 or are they both unmoddable?

so I was a DoW2 fan and the Elite mod has rebalanced and significantly improved the game, is there any possibility of a community mod for vCoH or CoH2 or are they both unmoddable?

Well there's a mod called that with the exact same name for CoH1 which sorta sounds like it might be what you want: http://www.coh2.org/topic/10886/elite-mod-coh--download-and-changelog

Couldn't tell ya if it is though, haven't tried it myself.

What I find very unsatisfying in coh2 is that you have to change the faction every few games or it gets boring.
The only change to that is when there is a new patch and the "flavor of the month" meta changes...

This game could be soooo much better if relic would have decided to carry a few things over from coh1. Especialy the commandersystem and the teching.

Just imagine the good things of both games thrown into 1 .

I mean "true sight" + cover system + sniper from coh2 multiplyed with Doctrin/commander/teching/side armor from coh1.


Remember the coh1 demo? I spent countless hours just on that. playing vs the cpu on that single map sucked me ( and many others) into coh1.
Later when I played coh1 there was never that "unit X is meta of the month"-feeling.
Sure there were times when some units were the "got to get that"-thing, but it was never as bad as in coh2.
Well, I even made a mappack for coh1. I never did something like that for any other game.
Why? Because relic changes (overbuffs/overnerfs) so much with every patch and because of the dlc-cancer they are giving us...
Yes I know the standard factions/commanders are good or atleast not that bad - but it still gives me a bad feeling that not every player has access to the same tools.
Pls don´t give me that "you can get commanders through warspoils" -Warspoils are just Kuhdung.

I feel Devm offers the most complete vision of how tech and commanders have changed. Although arguably the choices were more limited they were more specific which added more effective diversity.

What I find very unsatisfying in coh2 is that you have to change the faction every few games or it gets boring.
The only change to that is when there is a new patch and the "flavor of the month" meta changes...

Later when I played coh1 there was never that "unit X is meta of the month"-feeling.
Sure there were times when some units were the "got to get that"-thing, but it was never as bad as in coh2.

I think you're mistaken on that point, even 1,07 pre OF there was stug vs sherman then m8 v puma and the ubiquitous riflespam vs. semois pin. Then Ofs elite infantry spam, reborns scout car spam + luftwaffe gf, wehr pio spam to t2, or the particularly irksome which never changed T2 gren spam to KT, brit pins against flamers and an ht. There were very specific strategic flowsand evolutions throughout time, arguably more diverse to your point

as much as i love vcoh, theres alot of things that make me like coh 2 much more, even tho the tech paths arent as good you still have more medium tanks available much faster in this game compared to old coh tiers feel better spaced and you get some really good comabt in though out the game as opposed to spending half the game in 1 tier.

also misses a ton of crappy features of old coh like medic bunkers, pointless manpower points etc.

One of the biggest failings of coh2 is the lack of the same sense of community with the in-game leaderboards and lobby. I have fond memories of alttabbing to gr.org andt promptly losing faith in humanity watching the irc chat scroll by.

Smurfing was pretty dumb too.

What I find very unsatisfying in coh2 is that you have to change the faction every few games or it gets boring.
The only change to that is when there is a new patch and the "flavor of the month" meta changes...

This game could be soooo much better if relic would have decided to carry a few things over from coh1. Especialy the commandersystem and the teching.

Just imagine the good things of both games thrown into 1 .

I mean "true sight" + cover system + sniper from coh2 multiplyed with Doctrin/commander/teching/side armor from coh1.


Remember the coh1 demo? I spent countless hours just on that. playing vs the cpu on that single map sucked me ( and many others) into coh1.
Later when I played coh1 there was never that "unit X is meta of the month"-feeling.
Sure there were times when some units were the "got to get that"-thing, but it was never as bad as in coh2.
Well, I even made a mappack for coh1. I never did something like that for any other game.
Why? Because relic changes (overbuffs/overnerfs) so much with every patch and because of the dlc-cancer they are giving us...
Yes I know the standard factions/commanders are good or atleast not that bad - but it still gives me a bad feeling that not every player has access to the same tools.
Pls don´t give me that "you can get commanders through warspoils" -Warspoils are just Kuhdung.

right, the meta of the decade was snipers

Pros of vCOH:
Voice acting across the board
Fuel upgrades... EX: MASS BAR TIMING ATTACK was so fun to use
Doctrines and commanders system way better than 2

Cons:
Snipers meta lol



Pros of COH2:
Soviets
Brits not a cancer faction

Cons:
Horrible voice acting (grens voice is enough to make Ostheer faction dead to me)
USF is absolutely boring as well as weaker compared to vCOH, a gimick faction with no late game

I think you're mistaken on that point, even 1,07 pre OF there was stug vs sherman then m8 v puma and the ubiquitous riflespam vs. semois pin. Then Ofs elite infantry spam, reborns scout car spam + luftwaffe gf, wehr pio spam to t2, or the particularly irksome which never changed T2 gren spam to KT, brit pins against flamers and an ht. There were very specific strategic flowsand evolutions throughout time, arguably more diverse to your point

If you edit the quote like you have done, it´s totally out of context

... maybe it´s because my english is not that good

so I was a DoW2 fan and the Elite mod has rebalanced and significantly improved the game, is there any possibility of a community mod for vCoH or CoH2 or are they both unmoddable?

Dawn of War and Company of heroes are very different games even though both are made by Relic and have very similar mechanics simply because in Dawn of War II RNG is non-existent so you're not gonna have planes crashing into your troops XD but Dawn of War II really needed the elite mod there was many issues and bugs such as the Imperial Guard heavy weapons team, aswell as many imbalance issues here and there elite mod fixes most of that stuff and it has to as Relic just abandoned Dawn of War II and stopped supporting it and adding trading cards isnt supporting a game! While a mod similar to the elite mod may one day appear on CoH2 you have to remember that relic is still actively working on and patching the game.

Anyways coming from an average player I find Company of Heroes 2 more simple and less complicated than Company of Heroes 1 and I think its been said before by multiple other posters that there isnt as much strategy in Company of Heroes 2 than there was in Company of Heroes 1 but if you like the Company of heroes style gameplay and would like to be with more players in a game that is also still being supported and updated then you should start playing CoH2