Grenadiers - Not for the faint of micro

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2015, 16:53 PMNapalm

The key word is LMG Gren. You are forcing a choice on a player. Does anybody remember the G43 upgrade? I thought not. In my opinion the LMG is a crutch that is more then likely being looked at elsewhere in balance land.

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2015, 16:54 PMAlexzandvar

This results in basic Axis infantry falling apart later into the game because the superior scaling

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2015, 16:44 PMNapalm

My frustration as of late has been the USF toss a grenade and retreat tactic. The timer on those nads are short which in my case leads to squad wiping, both in cover and out.

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2015, 17:12 PMRocket

Wow did he just complain about the usf grenade lmao it is like the most easily dodged grenade in the game slow obvious wind up and huge timer.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2015, 12:23 PMWerw0lf

Yes he did and so do I. It's the most ridiculously imbalanced, overeffective and thus abused grenade in the game.



Play some 1v1 auto ranked vs USF and you might understand why. Then again, probably not.

As for the condescending remarks about being "most easily dodged" and "L2p". What utter nonsense and arrogance.

USF nades I have thrown at me have a zero seconds fuse and next to no flight time, so we unless we are playing an entirely different game?

Are we because all usf nades have a timer period. Only axis get grenades with 0 timers and rifle nades that do not have a timer. L2P

Assuming you see the animation if your attention is where his is at that very moment given how scan and micro intensive this game is 1v1 often with several simultaneous firefights occurring while manually attending multitude of other tasks so much harder to attend in COH2 than they were in COH1.

and 1v1 is more micro than 2v2? really? in 2v2 at times I might be fighting 2 players at once and that is easier than fighting just 1 player?

Do not tell me about micro, USF is by far the most micro intensive faction in the game as they have the weakest tanks period there is no argument to that and we normally are operating 3 times as many tanks at once you on the other hand are operating just 1 god tank, or a panther, jagpanzer all of which can even have self deploying smoke or camo that further ease your micro as well as survivability that make them more forgiving than any allied tank leaving you more room for mistakes and allies less.

Now like 10 people have already told you that for riflemen grenades
1.The throwing animation is the most obvious in the game and probably the longest
EDIT: soviet molotovs are the most obvious riflemen grenades a close 2nd
2.It has a timer and is easily dodges period.
3.It bugs a lot for instance sometimes the game somehow decides say the furthest riflemen model in the squad from say me throwing a nade at mg is going to be the one to throw the nade and for some reason it never goes off, also all the time i have ordered them to throw a nade the icon goes dark but they for some reason just dont throw it possibly making the difference of a sucessful push

Axis rifle nades have a hard to see animation that is often easily hidden and part of grens normal thing is some squads crouch when just firing. It has a 0 fuse if I am looking away and I hear grenade by the time i click back to my squad there is 0 time to react. They also can wipe injured squads bunched in cover just as easily as the usf nade.



Now please pay attention to the important part Homer. Animation - response time from battle server - effect.

e.g. My Wehr or Ost troops are in green or yellow cover, or a building, or if a HMG, deployed firing. By the time I click to select them then click leave building, retreat, or move to point, before my PC play squad responds and enactions the command on the battle server, they are already dead. That indicates a problem with USF nades nothing to do with whether one is blessed with micro Überness.

The consequence is instant entire squad loss 99% of the time. Have that happen once, it's major disadvantage. Twice in this game in any 1v1 and you may as well toss the game as game over.

But as if that wasn't bad enough of itself, USF throw them around like rocks on the ground in a rock garden in every engagement.

The proof of their effiacy is in their overuse abuse and our complaint. If they were no good, you wouldn't have one thrown almost without exception regardless the circumstance every time a USF squad engages, nor us complaining about it.

Whether for the absurd amount of damage they do compounded by their relative undodgability, USF nades need removing or to cost 350MP EACH per throw, not something as insignificant as just a nerf.

riflemen grenades should cost 350 MP bahahahah I might have to add that one to my signature or the fact you said they should be removed hahahaha how would we ever kill a mg or do anything really

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2015, 11:25 AMQbix

I hate squad wipes as much as everyone, but the reasoning given by Relic was the following:

If squads are out in the open, they don't bunch up. As soon as you try to put them in cover, especially if the available "spots" (preview while mouseover) are only a few, no matter if yellow or green, the models get closer to each other.

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2015, 11:58 AMTheMachine

Grens are too hard to micro... what? Every single unit with LMG's are completely effortless to micro.

Even if Grenadiers are as weak as you make out. Isn't that working as intended? Why should a faction that has the best Support Weapons and Tanks also have the best infantry. Shouldn't USF, with paper thin tanks have the best infantry?

Jump back to quoted post24 Sep 2015, 16:44 PMNapalm

Hello internet strangers,

It's been a very long time since I've created a balance thread as I have been attempting to "get good" in 1 v 1's as Ostheer. My observation is that Grenadiers are overly micro intensive when compared to other front line infantry. In the past six months cover has changed, grenades have changed, the other factions front line infantry have changed but Gren's have remained a near constant. Oh, there was that minor correction two patches ago which hurt their performance.

Simply put, given the direction the game has taken I feel the time is now for Gren's to have a 5th model. The damage should remain the same but this one change would at least make the unit more survivable and easier for the not-top-10 players to use.

My frustration as of late has been the USF toss a grenade and retreat tactic. The timer on those nads are short which in my case leads to squad wiping, both in cover and out. An extra model may help ease this.

Rawr

Jump back to quoted post25 Sep 2015, 16:23 PMAlexzandvar

Basically a this point I'm not really sure whats going on. Not only have automatch win rates hit rock bottom but OCF ones as well. I provided plenty of data to prove that Gren's at Vet 3 aren't A-move, quite the opposite really and yet here we still are with people insisting everything is fine.

I'm actually interested to see how bad it actually has to get before people start caring.

Since the hotfix hit the win rate for Ostheer and OKW in 2v2 has gotten even lower.