Overall Balance

This wouldn't be such an issue if Ostheer had reasonable access to all it's tiers, which it currently doesn't.

T4 is a bonus tier, Ost T3 is equivalent to USF T3 and Soviet T4.

Sprice does in fact abuse, maybe sometimes not in the literal sense but he does what can easily be called "cheese" (cheese being defined as a strat that unless the enemy is 100% prepared will net a win, but be totally ineffective if the enemy is prepared). This isn't calling him a bad player, rather, just kinda a dick sometimes.

And the USF popcap bug was never fixed because Relic couldn't figure out how to fix it so it essentially just entered the land of "not intended but never going to actually be fixed". Really the biggest effect this has is making Priests very easy to accumulate because you can keep them decrewed until you need a barrage.



This wouldn't be such an issue if Ostheer had reasonable access to all it's tiers, which it currently doesn't.

Got some sources on Relic not being able to fix it?

Its the same thing, no one has ever been able to point to a source of relic saying it is intended.

So both sides claim one or the other.

I love how ignorant here everyone here is concerning coh2chart.com which states clearly both axis factions are UP in 1vs1 & 2vs2.

+1 Axis needs some fixing.

I suspect the 2v2 stats are fudged by the insane Brit late game.

T4 is a bonus tier, Ost T3 is equivalent to USF T3 and Soviet T4.

But what's the bonus? OKW has access to better versions of everything Ost has access to. I guess maybe the Pwerfer now that it's half way decent is good but it's still not worth the tech cost. By the time a Panther hits the field it's way to late to have a real impact and since the Panthers main weakness is high health tanks and or lots of mediums basically the Ost Panther lost its roll with the death of heavy tank spam.

Ostheer T3 and T4 should work like Soviet T3 and T4, with the first being the more expensive and the second being gated behind it but cheaper.

That or T3 needs some additional scaling, like PIV's and StuG III's having skirts as a global upgrade with BP4 since teching to T4 is basically a no go.

Question is, the Comet isn't a "Bonus" for Brits, so why could you consider the Panther a bonus for Ost?

This overall generalisation of things just hurts.

But that's the point in the entire thread XD

But what's the bonus? OKW has access to better versions of everything Ost has access to. I guess maybe the Pwerfer now that it's half way decent is good but it's still not worth the tech cost. By the time a Panther hits the field it's way to late to have a real impact and since the Panthers main weakness is high health tanks and or lots of mediums basically the Ost Panther lost its role with the death of heavy tank spam.

The bonus is getting access to Panthers, hands down the best tank hunter unit in the game. It's got high speed, high armour, high health, and high penetration. If T4 was easily accessible, all Non-British Armour becomes invalid and so does all Non-Panther (or Tiger) Tanks for Ostheer.

Ostheer T3 and T4 should work like Soviet T3 and T4, with the first being the more expensive and the second being gated behind it but cheaper.

Not as long as the Soviet T4 is equivalent to Ostheer T3, you're not supposed to get Panthers easily.

Question is, the Comet isn't a "Bonus" for Brits, so why could you consider the Panther a bonus for Ost?

Yes it is. Or at least it should be. Otherwise there's no intensive to use anything else. That's all the Alpha was, Comet spam, and that's why people didn't realise how fucked up the Churchill was.

The high speed of the Panther is off set by it's awful accuracy while on the move. Meaning you need to stop before each shot in order to reliably hit your target. Ostheer is also a defensive oriented faction meaning the high mobility of the Panther doesn't make sense when you will normally not be chasing your enemy.

Non-Panther tanks wouldn't become invalid at all, the OKW PIV is way, way more popular than the OKW PV. Basically if given the choice of generalist or specialist most people will continue to pick generalist.

The high pen but very low ROF is actually great for Allied tanks because it allows them to overwhelm without taking significant losses.

Not as long as the Soviet T4 is equivalent to Ostheer T3, you're not supposed to get Panthers easily.

Ostheer T3 doesn't include rocket artillery. Perhaps the fix here might be moving the Pwerfer to T3?

Yes it is. Or at least it should be. Otherwise there's no intensive to use anything else. That's all the Alpha was, Comet spam, and that's why people didn't realise how fucked up the Churchill was.

Thing is, UKF, USF, Soviets, and OKW all have the ability in a match to access their entire unit tree but Ostheer for some reason is the exception. The whole "bonus tier" myth makes no sense because nothing in Ostheer T4 is actually more powerful than what other factions get over the period of a normal game anyway.

Everything in T4 is expensive, you won't be seeing any Panther or Sturmpanzer IV spam even if you make T4 cheaper to acquire.

Regardless Ostheer T3 is suffering heavily now because by the time it hits the field it's been countered to death.

Pretty much this. It seems like brit meta has moved to anvil instead of hammer, along with crocs. I rarely see comets now outside of team games.

The bonus is getting access to Panthers, hands down the best tank hunter unit in the game. It's got high speed, high armour, high health, and high penetration. If T4 was easily accessible, all Non-British Armour becomes invalid and so does all Non-Panther (or Tiger) Tanks for Ostheer.

This perhaps was true once but these days the panther just sucks as the su76 and jacksons and fireflies are all capable of dealing with its high armour. its no suprise you see a lot of jp4's and stugs these days. then their is the brumbar which is a piece of shit (and inferior to the ostwind) and the and the panzerwerfer which got some decent buffs.

In short your talking shit mate.

The high speed of the Panther is off set by it's awful accuracy while on the move. Meaning you need to stop before each shot in order to reliably hit your target. Ostheer is also a defensive oriented faction meaning the high mobility of the Panther doesn't make sense when you will normally not be chasing your enemy.

That's a small price to pay when you have such a damaging and durable vehicle. Compared to it's counterparts, the M36 and Firefly, only the Comet can call itself superior, mostly due to being multi-role and still able to battle Panthers.

Non-Panther tanks wouldn't become invalid at all, the OKW PIV is way, way more popular than the OKW PV. Basically if given the choice of generalist or specialist most people will continue to pick generalist.

The OKW P4 is much stronger than the Ostheer version, and is cheaper than the Panther. This is a lot of incentive for OKW to use it.

Ostheer T3 doesn't include rocket artillery. Perhaps the fix here might be moving the Pwerfer to T3?

I've advocated this for awhile now, actually.

Thing is, UKF, USF, Soviets, and OKW all have the ability in a match to access their entire unit tree but Ostheer for some reason is the exception. The whole "bonus tier" myth makes no sense because nothing in Ostheer T4 is actually more powerful than what other factions get over the period of a normal game anyway.

It's certainly much more powerful than USF T3 and Soviet T4, OKW and Brits can match it but it's risky, just like teching to Ost T4 is risky.

Everything in T4 is expensive, you won't be seeing any Panther or Sturmpanzer IV spam even if you make T4 cheaper to acquire.

Regardless Ostheer T3 is suffering heavily now because by the time it hits the field it's been countered to death.

It's expensive, but it snowballs. And it'd be better to fix T3 than to give them an easy T4 to dominate with.

I dunno. Two StuGs are better than a Panther at killing Allied tanks anyways.

T4 is a bonus tier, Ost T3 is equivalent to USF T3 and Soviet T4.

LOL, T4 a bouns tier.

OST T3 is equivalent to USF T3?

This is just so wrong.

LOL, T4 a bouns tier.

OST T3 is equivalent to USF T3?

This is just so wrong.

When Panzer IV's are on-par with T-34/76 and Shermans stack up to Panthers, you can consider Ost T4 equivalent to USF T3.

When Panzer IV's are on-par with T-34/76 and Shermans stack up to Panthers, you can consider Ost T4 equivalent to USF T3.

Panzer 4s are on-par with shermans not t-34/76s

the T34/76 is awful at the moment and its only purpuse is to ram an enemy tank at key moment

Panzer 4s are on-par with shermans not t-34/76s

the T34/76 is awful at the moment and its only purpuse is to ram an enemy tank at key moment

That's the point, Panzer IV's are Ostheer's optional end-game. They can go for Panthers but it's not generally required, and by that point it's a bonus.

When Panzer IV's are on-par with T-34/76 and Shermans stack up to Panthers, you can consider Ost T4 equivalent to USF T3.

more like USF T3 hardcounters Ost T3 which is why a lot of top players just skip it against USF for tigers. T4 is not really needed, tigers are basically ost T4.

Overall what? Balance? What balance? Bugged partisans? Air superiority? Churchill? KV-8? Laser vickers shooting half a map distance....?

Something's terribly wrong with this game.

Ost suffers from the light armor rush but hardly go to T4 for their heavier armor on 1v1 games.It seems it lacks a whole tech (light-armor tech)than soviet or USF on 1v1.

buff okw late game plz it sucks

buff okw late game plz it sucks

Its more that their early game sucks and their vulnerability to lv's. goes for the ostheer as well. Some retards actually said fausts are a counter to lv's. fucking nabs.