The Patch Note (What is planned for Partisans)
Now even those Soviet Partisans have more shock value with their STGs. LOL
Holding K98 makes no sense for a surprise unit.
And it takes so so long to upgrade their expensive STG, which is doing exactly same thing as Panzergrenadiers.
'Hey, you can just wait them to upgrade their weapon at a safe place and storm...'
NO. It's same as praying that they won't be found by enemy, and waste 45 seconds.
What's the point of surprise unit?
'Just use it as a normal unit. Take advantage of rec. accuracy...'
Then Panzergrenadier would do fine job. It's rec. accuracy is also high.(Get higher on vet 2)
It's just too expensive to use them just for capping.
210mp partisans can do same job. AND THEY GET STGS
(it might be 2 STGs, but it is a lot cheaper and enough to get the capping job done.)
Nerf its cost just a little bit to get STG right off the bat. Would ya, Relic?
(Then Tactical Movement should be a vet skill)
Edit: more info
When you use sprint, the commander choice is revealed. Then the enemy will build caches on weak points.
= NO USE FOR DECAPPING MISSION.
This commander skill set force us to not to use most of themselves until close the pocket. Dumb.
Stormtroopers less then Partisans
3 Sep 2015, 08:59 AM
#1
Posts: 172
3 Sep 2015, 10:49 AM
#2
5 Posts: 104
Edited out the whining at the start of my post
You can't straight up compare them like that. They are used completely differently, and fit into the doctrines very differently. They both pop out of buildings, but beyond that you shouldn't be using them the same. Storms sneak, decap and raid, then retreat to be refitted as useful infantry. Partisans ambush and are expended.
Storms also got buffed, and in a way that is meant to encourage their use as more than a quick shock.
You can't straight up compare them like that. They are used completely differently, and fit into the doctrines very differently. They both pop out of buildings, but beyond that you shouldn't be using them the same. Storms sneak, decap and raid, then retreat to be refitted as useful infantry. Partisans ambush and are expended.
Storms also got buffed, and in a way that is meant to encourage their use as more than a quick shock.
3 Sep 2015, 10:55 AM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
1-sturms have CAMO
2-sturms get additional ability with upgrade
3-sturms can become AT or AI, you're not forced to have them do one thing out of the gate, you can adapt.
4-sturms have 0.7 rec acc modofier(higher then pgrens), partisans don't.
5-sturms can replace grens as mainline infantry, partisans can't.
6-all partisan weapons are WORSE on them then on other units, why do you believe their STGs will be same as PG ones?
2-sturms get additional ability with upgrade
3-sturms can become AT or AI, you're not forced to have them do one thing out of the gate, you can adapt.
4-sturms have 0.7 rec acc modofier(higher then pgrens), partisans don't.
5-sturms can replace grens as mainline infantry, partisans can't.
6-all partisan weapons are WORSE on them then on other units, why do you believe their STGs will be same as PG ones?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Sep 2015, 11:08 AM
#4
Posts: 762 | Subs: 4
If I may shed some light here.
The main benefit of the unit isn't to spring them out of a building and then upgrade them and wait. You should be using these units for stealth capping behind the lines etc. Or trying to activate a close the pocket ability. The upgrades are really something that should be upgraded after their initial entrance to the battlefield.
I would actually recommend if you are planning on high dps running units you should use Panzer Grenadiers. The Stormtroopers are really just an advanced capping and stealth unit which can benefit you later of if you can afford upgrade and abilities.
The main benefit of the unit isn't to spring them out of a building and then upgrade them and wait. You should be using these units for stealth capping behind the lines etc. Or trying to activate a close the pocket ability. The upgrades are really something that should be upgraded after their initial entrance to the battlefield.
I would actually recommend if you are planning on high dps running units you should use Panzer Grenadiers. The Stormtroopers are really just an advanced capping and stealth unit which can benefit you later of if you can afford upgrade and abilities.
3 Sep 2015, 11:09 AM
#5
3 
Posts: 587
1-sturms have CAMO
2-sturms get additional ability with upgrade
3-sturms can become AT or AI, you're not forced to have them do one thing out of the gate, you can adapt.
4-sturms have 0.7 rec acc modofier(higher then pgrens), partisans don't.
5-sturms can replace grens as mainline infantry, partisans can't.
6-all partisan weapons are WORSE on them then on other units, why do you believe their STGs will be same as PG ones?
"Partisan
We wanted to give a more define role to Partisans. This will now have access to full German weapons consistantly.
Will now only gain access to axis weapons with default stats (MP44s, Panzershercks)"
So if their weapons have "Default stats"
Then their guns could be straightly ripped from Sturmpioneers, since their MP 44´s are worse than Pgren MP44´s
3 Sep 2015, 11:18 AM
#6
Posts: 118
Partisans > Stormtroopers
Come on mate, seriously?
Come on mate, seriously?
3 Sep 2015, 11:28 AM
#7
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
"Partisan
We wanted to give a more define role to Partisans. This will now have access to full German weapons consistantly.
Will now only gain access to axis weapons with default stats (MP44s, Panzershercks)"
So if their weapons have "Default stats"
Then their guns could be straightly ripped from Sturmpioneers, since their MP 44´s are worse than Pgren MP44´s
Ah, missed that!
Then I'm really looking up to check them out!
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Sep 2015, 11:53 AM
#8
Posts: 721
You can't straight up compare them like that. They are used completely differently
...as an adaptive response to the way they are designed. Which is what the complaint is about. It's a fair argument, infiltration units should be able to surprise more then just "oh, I didn't quite see you there!"
"Partisan
We wanted to give a more define role to Partisans. This will now have access to full German weapons consistantly.
Will now only gain access to axis weapons with default stats (MP44s, Panzershercks)"
What? Does that mean partisans are useful now? Did something new happen?
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
3 Sep 2015, 12:06 PM
#9
Posts: 4928
StG's doesn't make sense, I'd rather they be armed with SVT-40's, with good stats of course. Or maybe 4x Conscript PPSh, since those are getting the range buffed to make them an actual upgrade like every other ballistic weapon upgrade. Maybe even both, option to switch back and forth for extra versatility.
Still think it would be cool if they were self-sustaining and could ambush, but I guess that's not one of Relic's ideas. I'm also kind of mourning the loss of the Irregulars, I liked them back before the Infantry changes where they could nearly take on a Grenadier Squad solo without abilities.
Still think it would be cool if they were self-sustaining and could ambush, but I guess that's not one of Relic's ideas. I'm also kind of mourning the loss of the Irregulars, I liked them back before the Infantry changes where they could nearly take on a Grenadier Squad solo without abilities.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Sep 2015, 12:19 PM
#10
Posts: 721
since those are getting the range buffed
What are you talking about? Is there a patch coming that a whole bunch of people already know the contents of?
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
3 Sep 2015, 12:20 PM
#11
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
What are you talking about? Is there a patch coming that a whole bunch of people already know the contents of?
Umm yes and that "whole bunch of people" seems to be everyone but you
Its even posted on the official forums changelog thread.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Sep 2015, 12:42 PM
#12
Posts: 721
Lol I saw it now, off to reading 
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
3 Sep 2015, 12:43 PM
#13
5 Posts: 104
...as an adaptive response to the way they are designed. Which is what the complaint is about. It's a fair argument, infiltration units should be able to surprise more then just "oh, I didn't quite see you there!"
It's like comparing the AI DPS of AT partisans vs normal partisans.
Not a fair comparison as one will be miles better than the other despite both being better at their intended roles. Storms aren't meant just for jumping out straight into a fight, partisans are.
As part of their wider doctrines they are meant to perform differently. The OP is picking the one part of storms' stats where they are worse than partisans and extrapolating to say they need a buff, ignoring the reasons behind their original differences.
You don't see the OP complaining about storms not coming with shreks because AT partisans have them, he just wants a better axis partisan equivalent. That's not what storms are for. It just smacks of the type of player who sees something allied he likes and throws his toys out of the pram to get it, but when allied players ask for a similar feature to axis goes on about "asymmetrical balance" as a reason against.
3 Sep 2015, 13:08 PM
#14
Posts: 412
Leaving aside the comparison between storms and partisans who are getting trial changes to make them more viable, it's hard to judge until we test it.
Storms which haven't changed for a long time, thus we can make an informed opinion about, are a bit meh, in a doctrine made of meh. Aside from sprint on the ost sniper it does not have too much going for it in 1's.
Grens come earlier then storms, cheaper reinforce and a better AI upgrade, Faust and arguably better nade. Pgrens can do much the same as storms, except they trade manpower efficiency with a higher reinforcement cost, for not needing a very costly AI upgrade to perform. AT wise, Pgrens come out ahead. If you want to replicate the camo, you can get that from better commanders. The ambush camo on Pgrens is actually good as the damage/now changed to accuracy bonus lasts for 5 seconds, which close up on a burst damage platform like Pgrens works much the same as storms, except you save a crap ton of munitions. Timing wise, both units come roughly at the same time. Storms don't need tier 2, but realistically 90+% of the time as ostheer, you need that tier anyways.
And munitions for ostheer can be better spent on lmgs/g43's which will make your army far more manpower efficient then any gains you get from a reduced reinforcement cost for storms in comparison to Pgrens.
So in short, storms could do with some love. They aren't terrible, but neither are they on par with grens/Pgrens IMO.
Storms which haven't changed for a long time, thus we can make an informed opinion about, are a bit meh, in a doctrine made of meh. Aside from sprint on the ost sniper it does not have too much going for it in 1's.
Grens come earlier then storms, cheaper reinforce and a better AI upgrade, Faust and arguably better nade. Pgrens can do much the same as storms, except they trade manpower efficiency with a higher reinforcement cost, for not needing a very costly AI upgrade to perform. AT wise, Pgrens come out ahead. If you want to replicate the camo, you can get that from better commanders. The ambush camo on Pgrens is actually good as the damage/now changed to accuracy bonus lasts for 5 seconds, which close up on a burst damage platform like Pgrens works much the same as storms, except you save a crap ton of munitions. Timing wise, both units come roughly at the same time. Storms don't need tier 2, but realistically 90+% of the time as ostheer, you need that tier anyways.
And munitions for ostheer can be better spent on lmgs/g43's which will make your army far more manpower efficient then any gains you get from a reduced reinforcement cost for storms in comparison to Pgrens.
So in short, storms could do with some love. They aren't terrible, but neither are they on par with grens/Pgrens IMO.
3 Sep 2015, 14:21 PM
#15
Posts: 721
It's like comparing the AI DPS of AT partisans vs normal partisans.
Not a fair comparison as one will be miles better than the other despite both being better at their intended roles. Storms aren't meant just for jumping out straight into a fight, partisans are.
As part of their wider doctrines they are meant to perform differently. The OP is picking the one part of storms' stats where they are worse than partisans and extrapolating to say they need a buff, ignoring the reasons behind their original differences.
You don't see the OP complaining about storms not coming with shreks because AT partisans have them, he just wants a better axis partisan equivalent. That's not what storms are for. It just smacks of the type of player who sees something allied he likes and throws his toys out of the pram to get it, but when allied players ask for a similar feature to axis goes on about "asymmetrical balance" as a reason against.
Ok, sure. The name creates confusion I guess.
-Stormtroopers, cool! I will use them to assault from...
-No you won't.
-..the...what?
-You are supposed to sneak and decap.
-...with my "stormtroopers"...
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
3 Sep 2015, 15:03 PM
#16
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
1-sturms have CAMO
aye
2-sturms get additional ability with upgrade
said upgrade costs 100mun, whereas panzergrens get it for free with the same mp cost
3-sturms can become AT or AI, you're not forced to have them do one thing out of the gate, you can adapt.
single schreck so worth it
4-sturms have 0.7 rec acc modofier(higher then pgrens), partisans don't.
fair enough
5-sturms can replace grens as mainline infantry, partisans can't.
no they cant, because too much to call them in and also cost too much to upgrade
6-all partisan weapons are WORSE on them then on other units, why do you believe their STGs will be same as PG ones?
because of that
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
3 Sep 2015, 20:34 PM
#17
Posts: 4928
Ok, sure. The name creates confusion I guess.
-Stormtroopers, cool! I will use them to assault from...
-No you won't.
-..the...what?
-You are supposed to sneak and decap.
-...with my "stormtroopers"...
Ironically Jäger Light Infantry, originally designed as a decap squad, are combat ready and effective as soon as they deploy. Meanwhile Stormtroopers are a very passive unit unless you give them a very expensive upgrade to PG StG's.
They should at least start with Ober Kar98.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
3 Sep 2015, 21:43 PM
#18
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
oops wrong topic
4 Sep 2015, 00:27 AM
#19
Posts: 172
If I may shed some light here.
The main benefit of the unit isn't to spring them out of a building and then upgrade them and wait. You should be using these units for stealth capping behind the lines etc. Or trying to activate a close the pocket ability. The upgrades are really something that should be upgraded after their initial entrance to the battlefield.
I would actually recommend if you are planning on high dps running units you should use Panzer Grenadiers. The Stormtroopers are really just an advanced capping and stealth unit which can benefit you later of if you can afford upgrade and abilities.
I know how to use them. I wrote up there.
But when I read how Relic care about Partisans,(patch note for preview mod) i just felt to speak this out.
It's just extremely inefficient for 'behind the lines' unit.
Any unit coming through building is more efficient than this unit.
4 Sep 2015, 00:30 AM
#20
Posts: 172
Partisans > Stormtroopers
Come on mate, seriously?
Read the patch note for preview mod plz...
They certainly eventually will be, not now though
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