Stormtroopers less then Partisans
![avatar of KoufromMizuchi](/images/avatars/Assault_Engineer.png?updated=1428069538)
Posts: 172
Now even those Soviet Partisans have more shock value with their STGs. LOL
Holding K98 makes no sense for a surprise unit.
And it takes so so long to upgrade their expensive STG, which is doing exactly same thing as Panzergrenadiers.
'Hey, you can just wait them to upgrade their weapon at a safe place and storm...'
NO. It's same as praying that they won't be found by enemy, and waste 45 seconds.
What's the point of surprise unit?
'Just use it as a normal unit. Take advantage of rec. accuracy...'
Then Panzergrenadier would do fine job. It's rec. accuracy is also high.(Get higher on vet 2)
It's just too expensive to use them just for capping.
210mp partisans can do same job. AND THEY GET STGS
(it might be 2 STGs, but it is a lot cheaper and enough to get the capping job done.)
Nerf its cost just a little bit to get STG right off the bat. Would ya, Relic?
(Then Tactical Movement should be a vet skill)
Edit: more info
When you use sprint, the commander choice is revealed. Then the enemy will build caches on weak points.
= NO USE FOR DECAPPING MISSION.
This commander skill set force us to not to use most of themselves until close the pocket. Dumb.
![avatar of US3K](/uploads/avatar/13792.png?updated=1446765421)
![Patrion 1](/images/badges/crowdfunding/patron_1.png)
Posts: 104
You can't straight up compare them like that. They are used completely differently, and fit into the doctrines very differently. They both pop out of buildings, but beyond that you shouldn't be using them the same. Storms sneak, decap and raid, then retreat to be refitted as useful infantry. Partisans ambush and are expended.
Storms also got buffed, and in a way that is meant to encourage their use as more than a quick shock.
![avatar of Katitof](/images/avatars/partisan_at.png?updated=1414778183)
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
2-sturms get additional ability with upgrade
3-sturms can become AT or AI, you're not forced to have them do one thing out of the gate, you can adapt.
4-sturms have 0.7 rec acc modofier(higher then pgrens), partisans don't.
5-sturms can replace grens as mainline infantry, partisans can't.
6-all partisan weapons are WORSE on them then on other units, why do you believe their STGs will be same as PG ones?
![avatar of Stormless](/uploads/avatar/10747.jpg?updated=1447945773)
![Senior Caster Badge](/images/badges/badge_SENIOR_CASTER.png)
Posts: 762 | Subs: 4
The main benefit of the unit isn't to spring them out of a building and then upgrade them and wait. You should be using these units for stealth capping behind the lines etc. Or trying to activate a close the pocket ability. The upgrades are really something that should be upgraded after their initial entrance to the battlefield.
I would actually recommend if you are planning on high dps running units you should use Panzer Grenadiers. The Stormtroopers are really just an advanced capping and stealth unit which can benefit you later of if you can afford upgrade and abilities.
![avatar of ATCF](/uploads/avatar/5745.jpg?updated=1449348406)
![Donator 3](/images/badges/crowdfunding/donator_3.png)
Posts: 587
1-sturms have CAMO
2-sturms get additional ability with upgrade
3-sturms can become AT or AI, you're not forced to have them do one thing out of the gate, you can adapt.
4-sturms have 0.7 rec acc modofier(higher then pgrens), partisans don't.
5-sturms can replace grens as mainline infantry, partisans can't.
6-all partisan weapons are WORSE on them then on other units, why do you believe their STGs will be same as PG ones?
"Partisan
We wanted to give a more define role to Partisans. This will now have access to full German weapons consistantly.
Will now only gain access to axis weapons with default stats (MP44s, Panzershercks)"
So if their weapons have "Default stats"
Then their guns could be straightly ripped from Sturmpioneers, since their MP 44´s are worse than Pgren MP44´s
![avatar of Jonky](/uploads/avatar/7460.jpg?updated=1377029379)
Posts: 118
Come on mate, seriously?
![avatar of Katitof](/images/avatars/partisan_at.png?updated=1414778183)
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
"Partisan
We wanted to give a more define role to Partisans. This will now have access to full German weapons consistantly.
Will now only gain access to axis weapons with default stats (MP44s, Panzershercks)"
So if their weapons have "Default stats"
Then their guns could be straightly ripped from Sturmpioneers, since their MP 44´s are worse than Pgren MP44´s
Ah, missed that!
Then I'm really looking up to check them out!
![avatar of Trubbbel](/images/avatars/penals.png?updated=1394378846)
Posts: 721
You can't straight up compare them like that. They are used completely differently
...as an adaptive response to the way they are designed. Which is what the complaint is about. It's a fair argument, infiltration units should be able to surprise more then just "oh, I didn't quite see you there!"
"Partisan
We wanted to give a more define role to Partisans. This will now have access to full German weapons consistantly.
Will now only gain access to axis weapons with default stats (MP44s, Panzershercks)"
What? Does that mean partisans are useful now? Did something new happen?
![avatar of Mr. Someguy](/images/avatars/policefusilier.png?updated=1428069587)
Posts: 4928
Still think it would be cool if they were self-sustaining and could ambush, but I guess that's not one of Relic's ideas. I'm also kind of mourning the loss of the Irregulars, I liked them back before the Infantry changes where they could nearly take on a Grenadier Squad solo without abilities.
![avatar of Trubbbel](/images/avatars/penals.png?updated=1394378846)
Posts: 721
since those are getting the range buffed
What are you talking about? Is there a patch coming that a whole bunch of people already know the contents of?
![avatar of Katitof](/images/avatars/partisan_at.png?updated=1414778183)
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
What are you talking about? Is there a patch coming that a whole bunch of people already know the contents of?
Umm yes and that "whole bunch of people" seems to be everyone but you
![:luvDerp: :luvDerp:](/images/Smileys/luvnest/luvDerp.png)
Its even posted on the official forums changelog thread.
![avatar of Trubbbel](/images/avatars/penals.png?updated=1394378846)
Posts: 721
![:) :)](/images/Smileys/smile.gif)
![avatar of US3K](/uploads/avatar/13792.png?updated=1446765421)
![Patrion 1](/images/badges/crowdfunding/patron_1.png)
Posts: 104
...as an adaptive response to the way they are designed. Which is what the complaint is about. It's a fair argument, infiltration units should be able to surprise more then just "oh, I didn't quite see you there!"
It's like comparing the AI DPS of AT partisans vs normal partisans.
Not a fair comparison as one will be miles better than the other despite both being better at their intended roles. Storms aren't meant just for jumping out straight into a fight, partisans are.
As part of their wider doctrines they are meant to perform differently. The OP is picking the one part of storms' stats where they are worse than partisans and extrapolating to say they need a buff, ignoring the reasons behind their original differences.
You don't see the OP complaining about storms not coming with shreks because AT partisans have them, he just wants a better axis partisan equivalent. That's not what storms are for. It just smacks of the type of player who sees something allied he likes and throws his toys out of the pram to get it, but when allied players ask for a similar feature to axis goes on about "asymmetrical balance" as a reason against.
![avatar of Bryan](/uploads/avatar/6658.jpg?updated=1375532967)
Posts: 412
Storms which haven't changed for a long time, thus we can make an informed opinion about, are a bit meh, in a doctrine made of meh. Aside from sprint on the ost sniper it does not have too much going for it in 1's.
Grens come earlier then storms, cheaper reinforce and a better AI upgrade, Faust and arguably better nade. Pgrens can do much the same as storms, except they trade manpower efficiency with a higher reinforcement cost, for not needing a very costly AI upgrade to perform. AT wise, Pgrens come out ahead. If you want to replicate the camo, you can get that from better commanders. The ambush camo on Pgrens is actually good as the damage/now changed to accuracy bonus lasts for 5 seconds, which close up on a burst damage platform like Pgrens works much the same as storms, except you save a crap ton of munitions. Timing wise, both units come roughly at the same time. Storms don't need tier 2, but realistically 90+% of the time as ostheer, you need that tier anyways.
And munitions for ostheer can be better spent on lmgs/g43's which will make your army far more manpower efficient then any gains you get from a reduced reinforcement cost for storms in comparison to Pgrens.
So in short, storms could do with some love. They aren't terrible, but neither are they on par with grens/Pgrens IMO.
![avatar of Trubbbel](/images/avatars/penals.png?updated=1394378846)
Posts: 721
It's like comparing the AI DPS of AT partisans vs normal partisans.
Not a fair comparison as one will be miles better than the other despite both being better at their intended roles. Storms aren't meant just for jumping out straight into a fight, partisans are.
As part of their wider doctrines they are meant to perform differently. The OP is picking the one part of storms' stats where they are worse than partisans and extrapolating to say they need a buff, ignoring the reasons behind their original differences.
You don't see the OP complaining about storms not coming with shreks because AT partisans have them, he just wants a better axis partisan equivalent. That's not what storms are for. It just smacks of the type of player who sees something allied he likes and throws his toys out of the pram to get it, but when allied players ask for a similar feature to axis goes on about "asymmetrical balance" as a reason against.
Ok, sure. The name creates confusion I guess.
-Stormtroopers, cool! I will use them to assault from...
-No you won't.
-..the...what?
-You are supposed to sneak and decap.
-...with my "stormtroopers"...
![avatar of dasheepeh](/uploads/avatar/8026.png?updated=1425929177)
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
1-sturms have CAMO
aye
2-sturms get additional ability with upgrade
said upgrade costs 100mun, whereas panzergrens get it for free with the same mp cost
3-sturms can become AT or AI, you're not forced to have them do one thing out of the gate, you can adapt.
single schreck so worth it
4-sturms have 0.7 rec acc modofier(higher then pgrens), partisans don't.
fair enough
5-sturms can replace grens as mainline infantry, partisans can't.
no they cant, because too much to call them in and also cost too much to upgrade
6-all partisan weapons are WORSE on them then on other units, why do you believe their STGs will be same as PG ones?
because of that
![avatar of Mr. Someguy](/images/avatars/policefusilier.png?updated=1428069587)
Posts: 4928
Ok, sure. The name creates confusion I guess.
-Stormtroopers, cool! I will use them to assault from...
-No you won't.
-..the...what?
-You are supposed to sneak and decap.
-...with my "stormtroopers"...
Ironically Jäger Light Infantry, originally designed as a decap squad, are combat ready and effective as soon as they deploy. Meanwhile Stormtroopers are a very passive unit unless you give them a very expensive upgrade to PG StG's.
They should at least start with Ober Kar98.
![avatar of Flying Dustbin](/uploads/avatar/15443.png?updated=1449017953)
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
![avatar of KoufromMizuchi](/images/avatars/Assault_Engineer.png?updated=1428069538)
Posts: 172
If I may shed some light here.
The main benefit of the unit isn't to spring them out of a building and then upgrade them and wait. You should be using these units for stealth capping behind the lines etc. Or trying to activate a close the pocket ability. The upgrades are really something that should be upgraded after their initial entrance to the battlefield.
I would actually recommend if you are planning on high dps running units you should use Panzer Grenadiers. The Stormtroopers are really just an advanced capping and stealth unit which can benefit you later of if you can afford upgrade and abilities.
I know how to use them. I wrote up there.
But when I read how Relic care about Partisans,(patch note for preview mod) i just felt to speak this out.
It's just extremely inefficient for 'behind the lines' unit.
Any unit coming through building is more efficient than this unit.
![avatar of KoufromMizuchi](/images/avatars/Assault_Engineer.png?updated=1428069538)
Posts: 172
Partisans > Stormtroopers
Come on mate, seriously?
Read the patch note for preview mod plz...
They certainly eventually will be, not now though
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