CAS commander in team games

best commander to handle blobs is broken? lol

I find it peculiar when people lorde CAS as the best blob counter in the game because whilst thats possibly true, its certainly the best blob enabler for wehr.

LMG Gren blobs are incredibly hard to beat without any access to static arty.
Using Katys can be risky to as a single micro mistake/pathing issue can be hugely punishing.
Support weapons can be fodder to if you aren't really on the ball with them.

I realise that everything CAS does 'can' be dodged be and is even quite easy to dodge in isolation but when you're consistently dodging them whilst trying to actually play the game its very easy to make a mistake.

I'm not sayings its unbeatable but the risk/reward ratio is way off with it.

My only concern is the AI Strafe being hard to dodge, I will give you that. (Easier now thanks to the extra plane delay time)

But if you cant dodge that AT Strafe this patch..then I dont know, just lol

It's became less broken now, since command tank became meta.

CAS is pretty bad to be honest.

Better in 1v1 than team games.

Unless they perfectly time a stuka on your retreat point, everything is avoidable since the nerf. And they have less than no way to combat an ISU or IS2.

I was going to respond until I read this. 100%

The only time you are excent of not dodging the AT strafe is either wombo combos (TWP, mines, blocking pathing, etc) or playing 3v3+ (just maybe 2v2) and someone uses the OKW flares to spot your rear units while midcombat.

AI is now at least dodgeable if you are paying attention. Before it was almost impossible to dodge on small maps.

CAS is pretty bad to be honest.

Better in 1v1 than team games.

Unless they perfectly time a stuka on your retreat point, everything is avoidable since the nerf. And they have less than no way to combat an ISU or IS2.

I also agree with this.

The only reason to go CAS these days is the Recon + Stuka 50kg bomb to counter artillery.

The Panzerjäger doc is way better. You get the same combination and also an option to hard counter heavy tanks.

The recon might be a bit more expensive and you can´t spam ammo, but having an Elefant is way better. After the first Stuka drop the enemy isn´t going to build additional artillery pieces anyway.

Well this thread blew up over the past 24 hours.

I've read each and every reply to see both sides of the argument. Some things that people haven't addressed is the global presence of CAS commander in team games. Some of you have said its great in 1v1 but lack counters to heavy armour. In team games, the weakness is compensated by having their team mates to help them with that. CAS commander can pak wall pretty effectively too with excess MP.

I've also spoken with some friends that have over 1k hours of CoH2 and we've come to the agreement that CAS is very poorly designed. The reason being: While the commander is called Close Air Support, that doesn't mean you should cram all of the air support abilities possible into one. His abilities have way too much synergy to the point where its very overpowered. Its very versatile and has a global presence which most other commanders with global presences cannot compete with, especially allied counter parts (yes I'm looking at you partisan commander).

I'm glad that my MP cost to strafing runs and resource returns if the plane returns safely has caught on to some of you. I think its a fair balance to this commander because the benefits of buying AA against CAS commander is very minimal for the cost (only good for shooting down the recon but they will get recon effects anyway). We should see more of an investment return if we choose to buy AA. Currently AA half tracks can be ignored by the enemy team. It should have priority-to-destroy for the CAS player and his team mates because it makes sense right? If you're a close air support commander then AA should be your ultimate enemy/rival. You must shoot down the AA half track that is shooting down your men.

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Also another side note: Allies, specifically USF, had air superiority when they were fighting in the Western front and Soviets had way more planes than Axis during latter part of the Eastern front. Why don't we have CAS commanders for Allies and Soviets?

Also another side note: Allies, specifically USF, had air superiority when they were fighting in the Western front and Soviets had way more planes than Axis during latter part of the Eastern front. Why don't we have CAS commanders for Allies and Soviets?

CAS is one of the "Early War" Ostheer commanders. Both the original vanilla factions have early and late war commanders. For example the Luftwaffe Supply is directly based off of the battle of stalingrad.

Also another side note: Allies, specifically USF, had air superiority when they were fighting in the Western front and Soviets had way more planes than Axis during latter part of the Eastern front. Why don't we have CAS commanders for Allies and Soviets?

For the same reason Panthers have to run away from SU-85s. It´s totally random and not realistic.

Actually, I killed the ISU of a high level player with a single AT strafe once, shortly before CAS became widespread I think it was slightly damaged from AT guns, but not much. I hit it in the rear armour with the strafe.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Stuka strafe will never fail to penetrate.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Stuka strafe will never fail to penetrate.

No idea, sorry. Does attacking rear armour increase damage as well as penetration chance?

No idea, sorry. Does attacking rear armour increase damage as well as penetration chance?

No, rear armor only increases penetration, not damage.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Stuka strafe will never fail to penetrate.

It actually fails to pen a lot, but the deflection damage is really high so it doesn't matter.

It actually fails to pen a lot, but the deflection damage is really high so it doesn't matter.

You are correct, it has 180 pen.

Another thing that bugs me is the fact that CAS anti-infantry strafe doesn't friendly fire. It doesn't make sense how the CAS commander can continue to run his troops into the strafing run yet magically not be able to be suppressed or damaged by his own aircraft.

This is another one of the factors that greatly contribute to the strengths of the CAS commander.

CAS= Major win advantage for Axis in 3vs3+ format.

OP because spamable. What if USF could spam P47s without muni problem ?

OP because spamable. What if USF could spam P47s without muni problem ?

LOL. I could only imagine. FREEDOM AND LIBERTY FOR ALL. LET THE DEMOCRACY RAIN OVER YOU

I personally don't see this commander used much anymore. I used it about 10-12 time pre patch. It was no game changer except on helping to break soviet def liens backed by su-5s, katys and b4's. The at strafe helped make the su 85's move, killed the katys, and the stuka bomb shut down the b4's.

CAS is a great support commander but its not a I win commander. Even with CAs I've seen games where teams were unable to counter a b4 plus priest arty combo protected by a def line.

If Axis goes late game evenly with Allies and they go heavy arty Axis will lose the Arty battle if no Stuka bombs...is that I-win? No.

AI strafe insta pins whole army...why is whole army able that close to get pinned.

At strafe hard counters all but heavy armor. Other than catching a katy mid fire, or pathing screwing you. you can dodge At strafe especially this patch. As for killing a crippled ISu..same concept of calling an arty strike on a crippled KT (that one that hits really hard with about 4-5 shells)

Finally if we're going to make CAS planes cost MP. ALL planes for each side needs to cost MP since they CAN ALL be shot down. (minus the para plane for USF)

This Doc isn't even an issue this patch.