Stuart and Quad rush are pretty retarded,but....

M15 AA track wrecks 2 222s. idk about quad. Guards in an M3 can fight a 222 also.

if u can get a faust off, one 222 kills M15. 2 222's kill it with relative ease.

Truth lol. Unless your playing an idiot they'll screen 222 with Grens and have snipers and ridiculous shit on overwatch. Soviets can handle 222 no problem but as the Americans...ugh

Honestly have no idea what Relic was thinking with the 222 and Quad changes. USF should have the Quad, Sovs M15, and 222 should be like the Panzer Elite AT track (shitty puma) because a fast cheap vehicle that's decent vs all infantry and light targets is against the fucking Axis design.

BTW reason I haven't hit you up man is my PC literally can't run anything over 1 vs 1 smoothly

muahhahahah Alex crying because he doesn´t have a clue how to use combined arms muahahhaha, you behaviour here is a joke xD.

repeat with me, 222, pak, shrek.

again!!!

222, pak, shrek, 222, pak, shrek, 222, pak, shrek.


Ye?????? we can rinse and repeat if you didn´t get it yet. Don´t be shamed to say you need it one more time...

222, pak, shrek.


Well, out of joking, is going to happen something with this kind of users than flood and dearil every thread with their opinion? is it OK than in a 100 posts thread, more than 30 are from Alex???? It is not fair nor healthy at all for the community.


Go play the game or to spend your spare time in another way, it is not OK you break the flow of this forum with your opinions once and other and other and other....

It is really disgusting....


sorry for my bad english. Please mods, do something, this is not Alex2.org, is COH2.org....Each day I have less reasons to visit this forum, and the main reason to not do it is the behaviour of this user...It is ruining the experience for the most of the users registered here. It is not funny anymore to came here to see the opinion of just this guy....If this was my target, I would visit his blog, not this forum (FORUM FORUM FORUM, not a personal blog).

This thread show you what I´m talking about in a very clear way. Yet, there are tons of others thread where you can see this very same issue with Alex.

Please, shut up for once...

The soviets can try artillery or IS2 or SU spam in a long game

So one unit is spam now. I guess I knew this day would come. The spam commments have been pointless and ridiculous for a long time.

Roflmao, who need a soft AT when you can have a hard AT tier 2. Build a pak. 222 is a light unit that counter light units, it is a dedicated AT light unit countering dedicated AI light units. The unit isn't aimed to counter by itself medium vehicles but you can use it in combination with other AT units. Too hard for you? and you call yourself a good player

Like Katikif says, it has been meta for Allied faction for months facing early Puma/Luch/Ostwind. This is probably why it doesn't seem incredibly hard to manage for people playing Allied factions.

The 222 cannot counter anything other than a M20 or M3, it's extremely fragile. And the problem is that Pak's aren't supposed to counter light vehicles. They aren't mobile so unless one accidentally drives deep into the arc of the gun (but not to deep were it can just circle around) it ain't going to die.

Relying on 222's won't work for countering light vehicles.

Why do Volks and grens need this? Grens aren't supposed yo counter light armor because you already have paks, 222s, and Pshrecks in t2 to do the job for you. If you choose to not tech and use your factions at, you have Noone to blame but yourself. You dont see usf lt players or t1 soviet players complaining that they get hard countered by vehicles.

Except none of those things were made for countering light vehicles. The 222 can't do it because it's to fragile and dies extremely easily to concentrated small arms fire, the Shrek is easy to kite with, and yes it meant for supporting your other things but in a close 1v1 or 2v2 game you won't have enough a lot of shreks out in the opening minutes of a match.

Shreks are only good for fighting light vehicles if your enemy is really bad at micro or just get's unlucky and drives around a corner. You are far, far better off investing those munitions into mines. And I see USF players complaining literally every 5 minutes on this forum for months so lol.

And Soviet T1's lack of anti-vehicle can be compensated for by call in infantry such as Guards. Or just building T2 or rushing T3. Since the Quad shits all over enemy lights and the SU-76 can do that as well.

So in other words, they are stuck doing exactly what usf has been doing? USF has to go captain tier, since their LT tier gets murdered by 222s and okw period. Getting counters is part of the game. You have no business complaining that you have to get counters for certain units, especially when you have easy access to counters for vehicles that also cost fuel to use.

LT tier is dead because Relic decided to give USF the option of getting a light tank, a squad wipe machine, and access to an AT gun + Captain Zooks at a price very close to that of the LT. Nobody is going to take a HT or light scout vehicle over a light tank ever. OKW has had what it's had to counter T1 since day 1.

If you make the decision to take an extended tier 1, then you must be willing to reap the consequences when the allied player shuts you down with light vehicle play. You got countered, it's part of the game, and all factions have to deal with it.

Except going T2 doesn't save your ass at all. Like rushing T2 as fast as you can and making a Pak won't save you versus a good light vehicle micro'er. Going extended T1 hasn't been an option for weeks.

Overrated? What? Pshrecks allow you to counter all allied armor short of the is2 and isu152, and thus are shit? You can't attack move with them. Use them to support your paks and other at sources, not a blob of long distance death.

Pshreks allow you (at a high cost) to counter the armor of really bad players very easily. But against good players who kite, crush, and support their armor they aren't a smart investment versus spamming mines or other things. There is a reason Volk spam is dead as a door nail and you only see Pgren shreks rarely.

As long as allies need more micro for their lategame, they will be weaker in the lategame. That is just a fact. Okw and ostheer have straight up heavies within their normal tech, not to mention mediums that scale into heavy-mediums with vet.

Soviet's don't need more micro late game, USF does, but Soviet does not. And Ostheer/OKW have straight up more heavies, but those heavies aren't hard to counter at all. The SU-76 can easily stave off even the heaviest tanks in numbers. Soviets maaaybe had a worse late game pre-patch but now? Nah.

Axis have better scaling units (veterancy + stock upgrades). Scaling is the key word, and it directly translates to a lategame power spike.

Almost all East Front units have mirrored veterancy stats dude. The myth of artificial better scaling through better vet is such a tired meme at this point. Shocks and Guards have fine scaling and Shocks don't need to upgrade for their weapons. Grens simply aren't useful later on without their LMG, similar Volks have zero reason to exist without their shrek or Obers without the LMG.

You say stock upgrades, I just say mandatory upgrades :/

You are projecting. There is no "bitter" feelings from the ye Olde days. Axis has a lategame advantage, which can be proved quite empirically with the statistics from 4s and 3s, where the lategame comes much faster.

3's and 4's are broken because the maps are unrelenting shit. This is coming from a player who is experienced in both those game modes and is in a clan of people experienced in those. 3's and 4's will always be shit as long as the maps are small and encourage camping.

You still haven't given a valid reason for grens and Volks to get at rifle upgrades stock that are far superior to that given for conscripts doctrinally. Hell, you still haven't given a valid reason for this upgrade to be needed at all.

2 AT rifles for 60 muni wouldn't be superior, and 3 AT rifles for 90 wouldn't either. And those upgrades would give you the option of allowing yourself to counter light vehicles easier at the cost of late game scaling. AT rifles just keep the performance versus infantry the same rather than taking away like before the PTRS changes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket, is a phrase that describes a way of thinking best described by the phrase "if I can't have it, neither can you." The metaphor refers to a pot of crabs. Individually, the crabs could easily escape from the pot, but instead, they grab at each other in a useless "king of the hill" competition which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise.[

Except that's a series of poor decisions one on top of each other. If you go for a T1 start there are tons of good guard commanders you can pick from, if you got for a T2 start their are tons of shock commanders you can pick from. And you can always go for T3 quickly now which gives you the SU-76 or T-70.

That's not a series of bad decisions, it's just "didn't pick guard commander" and "didn't build option B (tier 2) for soviet start."

Basically you are saying:

Soviets needing tier 2 or guards to counter light vehicles = fine

OH needing mobile defense or rush of AT gun that is always part of their stock teching progression = overly constricting, plz buff axis with superior PTRS.

If you don't counter ISU with an Elefant or Jadgtiger, chances are on several maps your just fucked.

I'm not convinced this is much different from fighting axis heavy tanks with soviet stock units. Also, what is USF supposed to do against an Elefant? Zooks and US AT-gun can't penetrate it very well, and Jacksons are strong but don't fare well against Elefants...

If you don't have a howitzer counter, your fucked.

Allies don't have non-doc counters to LeFH either ... not to mention USF against PAK-43s.

If you don't have an AT gun ASAP pray he fucking runs into a mine because that Quadmount is going to fuck your ass into the next millennium.

The quad I'm not so sure about, but both axis factions always have AT gun access every game so needing one by the time soviet T-3 rolls out isn't unreasonable, but maybe the quad is too good - I don't think I'm qualified to say.

Once upon a time Allies ALWAYS had to counter pick to Axis, but the roles have switched towards were you have a certain amount of MANDATORY Axis commanders you simply cannot refuse to take because they include counters to stuff that you see almost every game because they are in multiple commanders.

I have no idea how to use 222 cannot to counter anything other than a M20 or M3, it's extremely fragile. And the problem is that Pak's aren't supposed to counter light vehicles. They aren't mobile so unless one accidentally drives deep into the arc of the gun (but not to deep were it can just circle around) it ain't going to die.

Relying on 222's won't work for countering light vehicles.

^There you go I fixed it for you.

Except none of those things were made for countering light vehicles. The 222 can't do it because it's to fragile and dies extremely easily to concentrated small arms fire, the Shrek is easy to kite with, and yes it meant for supporting your other things but in a close 1v1 or 2v2 game you won't have enough a lot of shreks out in the opening minutes of a match.

Shreks are only good for fighting light vehicles if your enemy is really bad at micro or just get's unlucky and drives around a corner.

Wait, what? Shreck no good against light vehicles?

That's not a series of bad decisions, it's just "didn't pick guard commander" and "didn't build option B (tier 2) for soviet start."

Basically you are saying:

Soviets needing tier 2 or guards to counter light vehicles = fine

OH needing mobile defense or rush of AT gun that is always part of their stock teching progression = overly constricting, plz buff axis with superior PTRS.

Except there are tons of guard commanders you can get rather than being forced into 1-2 commanders. And you can always go for quick T2 or T3 in response that gives you guaranteed counters. The Axis factions really don't have a lot of light vehicles regardless.

And I never asked for a "superior" PTRS, so I don't get were you getting THAT from.

Crab mentality, sometimes referred to as crabs in the bucket, is a phrase that describes a way of thinking best described by the phrase "if I can't have it, neither can you." The metaphor refers to a pot of crabs. Individually, the crabs could easily escape from the pot, but instead, they grab at each other in a useless "king of the hill" competition which prevents any from escaping and ensures their collective demise.

Asking for mirrored PTRS upgrades to allow more options to counter the more plentiful allied light vehicles =/= desiring superiority. It's simply asking for more options to be given to avoid nerfing Allied units.

Like jesus, I'm trying to suggest ways we can allow Allies to keep the light vehicle fun times without it being to punishing for Axis, why does this make people so upset?

EDIT: And for the record, USF doctrines have multiple LefH counters and the Soviet howitzer can beat it by just straight up shooting at it.

Except there are tons of guard commanders you can get rather than being forced into 1-2 commanders. And you can always go for quick T2 or T3 in response that gives you guaranteed counters. The Axis factions really don't have a lot of light vehicles regardless.

And I never asked for a "superior" PTRS, so I don't get were you getting THAT from.

Yeah, just like how you can always get an early AT gun. My point is that there's nothing uniquely axis about having to counter pick people. You don't have to give up anything significant (like avoid a particular tier, as US or soviets are forced to) to get an AT-gun.

You were asking for three per squad - that's where I got that from. But fair enough.

Like jesus, I'm trying to suggest ways we can allow Allies to keep the light vehicle fun times without it being to punishing for Axis, why does this make people so upset?

I'm not upset; I just disagree with what you are saying.

EDIT: And for the record, USF doctrines have multiple LefH counters and the Soviet howitzer can beat it by just straight up shooting at it.

Yeah, so it's the same as axis countering howitzers - you have to pick a particular doctrine to do it. Soviet howitzers are also a doctrinal counter.

Like jesus, I'm trying to suggest ways we can allow Allies to keep the light vehicle fun times without it being to punishing for Axis, why does this make people so upset?

EDIT: And for the record, USF doctrines have multiple LefH counters and the Soviet howitzer can beat it by just straight up shooting at it.

There is no fucking need for that. Why don't you get it? Except for M5 quad there is nothing wrong with light vehicle play. They will nerf it next patch, no doubt, and everything will return to normal.
Shreck is already better then PTRS? Why would you introduce an inferior upgrade to the faction that doesn;t need it? Do you like the look of it or what?

Yeah, just like how you can always get an early AT gun. My point is that there's nothing uniquely axis about having to counter pick people. You don't have to give up anything significant (like avoid a particular tier, as US or soviets are forced to) to get an AT-gun.

Soviets don't need to avoid tiers at all, and USF only does because Captain is objectively better in every way. Like the issue is that even if you rush AT guns as Ostheer you still can't stave off light vehicles, and in the case of the Quad you can easily kill the offending AT gun.

It's just that Axis lacks early game mobile AT. Allies don't have this problem because Axis just doesn't have early game light vehicles that are mobile and hard hitting. The flak track has a set up time, and that's about it for AI Axis light vehicles. The P2 comes after the "light vehicle window"

You were asking for three per squad - that's where I got that from. But fair enough.

The Conscript upgrade gives you 3 per squad last time I checked, might be only 2. Regardless it's 60 munitions and OKW would be paying 90 for 3 and Ostheer would be paying 60 for 2.

Yeah, so it's the same as axis countering howitzers - you have to pick a particular doctrine to do it. Soviet howitzers are also a doctrinal counter.

The ML-20 is much more impactful and hard hitting than the LefH. Mostly due to the fact Allies don't rely heavily on defensive emplacements, trucks, and whatnot ans so forth. Not having a guaranteed LeFH counter as Allies isn't an automatic game loss.

Hell, OKW doesn't even have a doctrine with a counter

There is no fucking need for that. Why don't you get it? Except for M5 quad there is nothing wrong with light vehicle play. They will nerf it next patch, no doubt, and everything will return to normal.
Shreck is already better then PTRS? Why would you introduce an inferior upgrade to the faction that doesn;t need it? Do you like the look of it or what?

When dealing with light vehicles AT rifles are better than shreks, mostly because of the fact AT rifles literally cannot miss vehicles.

When dealing with light vehicles AT rifles are better than shreks, mostly because of the fact AT rifles literally cannot miss vehicles.

Here's a tip for you. They won't miss when you come closer.

But guess what I trade. I'll be for the upgrade you propose if Allies get Shreck equivalent and Axis loose it. Basically swap the weapons.

Here's a tip for you. They won't miss when you come closer.

But guess what I trade. I'll be for the upgrade you propose if Allies get Shreck equivalent and Axis loose it. Basically swap the weapons.

This assumes that the player will let you get closer (they won't), but against small target size vehicles the shrek has a very poor hit chance. They purposefully changed the PTRS to not be able to miss vehicles at all.

I would gladly trade Shreks on Volks for a PTRS + snare upgrade lol

Alex if all the Shrek does is scare away light vehicles, what good will AT rifles do? They'll greatly reduce squad DPS and all they'll do is "scare light vehicles away", as you said. Even with this change, mines and AT guns would be a better option.

Alex if all the Shrek does is scare away light vehicles, what good will AT rifles do? They'll greatly reduce squad DPS and all they'll do is "scare light vehicles away", as you said. Even with this change, mines and AT guns would be a better option.

When dealing with light vehicles AT rifles are better than shreks, mostly because of the fact AT rifles literally cannot miss vehicles.

They also have 40 range to the Shreks 35

Edit: Also AT rifles don't greatly reduce the squad's DPS. It keeps it about the same.

The game needs rebalancing. I'm tired of allies relying on cheese and axis being overpowered in the late-game. NDA NDA one of these will change, i just hope the other does too

They also have 40 range to the Shreks 35

Edit: Also AT rifles don't greatly reduce the squad's DPS. It keeps it about the same.

The entire reason you get Grens is for the LMG42. Nobody will shell out munis to lower their core AI squads anti infantry ability for light vehicle countering in the faction with the best light vehicle counters. It's ridiculous proposing Ostheer and OKW be able to choose(note that they have ubiquitous access via good teching) between mines, Shreks, AT guns, incendiary rounds, fausts, 222, your proposed AT rifle upgrade, and Puma. This is not something that the Axis needs, and outside of some weird Volks spam builds with call-in infantry thrown in, it won't be used because there are tons of better vehicle counters available at the same time that don't have as high of an opportunity cost.

If you want more upgrades for core Axis troops, MP40/Faust upgrade for Volks could work (as in, maybe) if you nerfed JLI and Pfusilier. Grens already have additional upgrades because of Ambush Camo and G43s. I'd be down for a G43 buff if you increased the cost to like 100 munis.

Stuff

The 222 as I said before isn't a reliable counter. The purpose of adding AT rifles isn't that you buy them on every squad it's that you trade out shreks or LMG42's on a few squads in order to give you a little boost early in the game.

This isn't about there being no counters, it's about countering being difficult and unreliable as well as it resulting in being pigonholed into certain counters. For instance you don't counter Stuart's with Puma (because they will have Zooks to scare you off as well as Stun shot). So you need to rely on mines + rackten.

Again; good AT gun =/= good light vehicle counter. Especially when facing mobile units that can survive more than 2 shots such as the Stuart, T-70.

The 222 is a deterrent, same as at guns: area denial to light vehicles. Mines are mines.

also purchasing an upgrade to aid only in the early game is ridiculous; the entire purpose of upgrades is that they help a unit scale.

If Ostheer really needs help vs light vehicles-which against Soviets you could argue they do- the best solution would be to give the halftrack an AT gun upgrade for like 60 muni that turns it in to the Panzer Elite AT halftrack. Boom, options.