SU-76 issues

4. By the time the KT comes out, 3-4 SU 76s can reliably kill a KT from the front (alright with an IS-2 as well)

Yeah this thing is waaaaay too strong, its endgame performance seriously needs to be toned down. The kicker is that the SU-76 only eats 8 pop, meaning even after building 4-5 or those, you still get to maintain an army after.

4 SU-76s = 300 fuel spent on tank destroyers ... you don't think that 300 fuel spent on tank destroyers should destroy a tank? That's more than an Elefant costs.

Not to mention that unlike an Elefant, the SU-76s lose 1/4 of their DPS (and 75 fuel) every two times the KT fires. If the KT knocks one of them out and then retreats the soviet player loses 75 fuel and 280(?) MP while the OKW player has lost nothing.

Riddle me this - as Ostheer, how one kills IS2 supported by 3x SU76 and covered by P47?
Answer is - he does not.

SU76 might not look OP on its own but it definitely helps to create some abusive, cheesy scenarios in which no matter what you do - you are fucked.

P47 is USF right? i am not sure you talking about 1v1 or 2v2, or 3v3 or 4v4 from what i see as Osteers as u in 1v1? but inorder to have P47 it need at least 2v2, then if i remember right IS2 cost 260 fuel SU-76 is 75 fuel so 260+3x75=485 fuel not including tech price, you must did pretty bad by give them both fuel point for 2v2. and if sov bring those 4 armor out, it nearly have no infantry. and of course you can't win against 2 player alone where is your teammate? (also elefant can care less about P47 just keep fighting)

Axis wont be happy until their Panthers can't be damaged by anything.

Oh no, multiple TD's are damaging your tank? What an outrage.

t76 are FINALLY viable to use after YEARS of being utter crap and of course, Axis players start whining.

It's utterly incomprehensible to them that their MEDIUM tank, that any axis player can build, non doctrinal can be penetrated. They got so used to ZIS shots bouncing off their armour, they just don't like it.

Perhaps relic can now turn their attention to the abundance of other Sov units that NEVER get built because they're utterly dreadful.

Penals - 'elite anti infantry' LOL, they're crap. Very rarely get used.

T70 - Rare to see this, laughably bad compared with a luchs

ISU - I see this maybe 1 every 10 games of 3v3 or 4v4, awful unit now.

KV8 - Expensive and considering it has a flamethrower, it's pretty rubbish against infantry. Slow and cumbersome, this will get fucked up. It's main gun is hilariously bad.

KV1 - Utterly, utterly useless tank. When was the last time anyone saw these on the field?

M-42 AT gun - It should be renamed the 'light vehicle tickler'. Anything above a light vehicle isn't going to get touched by this. Crap.

Irregulars - No idea when I last saw these in a game.

Partisans - rename these 'Soccer players who fall over to a light breeze whilst throwing their weapon at the feet of the enemy'. I know 40 year old virgins with more staying power than these guys.

KV2 - Rarely see these, not great.


As a SOV player I'd love to be able to use more commanders, but the vast majority are rubbish. I'm forced into using the same 3 or 4 or I might as well just surrender at minute 1 and save myself some time.

-snip-

T-70s are really good actually, because you can get them really early if you manage to hold the fuel. Will really screw over Ostheer. OKW, not so much because they can get schrecks on volks.

But ISU-152 is garbage, for 230 fuel and a bunch of manpower, you get a something as slow as a King Tiger that struggles to penetrate a Panther.

Partisans are OK where they are right now, they're good for littering the enemy's territory with mines and barbed wire. AT Partisans are great too, though kinda squishy. Their reinforcement cost is too much though, 26 for regular Partisans, 33 for AT Partisans.

Every else you said I agree with.

T70 - Rare to see this, laughably bad compared with a luchs

Why do some Allied players seem to hate this awesome little tank so much? Is it because it's not capable of busting up PIVs or the fact it's currently overshadowed by the Quad in everything except recon and AOE? And the thing will beat the Luchs head-on and is almost like a 222-spotting scope map hack with vet which is not hard to get.

Why do some Allied players seem to hate this awesome little tank so much? Is it because it's not capable of busting up PIVs or the fact it's currently overshadowed by the Quad in everything except recon and AOE? And the thing will beat the Luchs head-on and is almost like a 222-spotting scope map hack with vet which is not hard to get.

What are the chances of a T70 vs luchs battle? Pretty slim I think. Luchs' annihilate infantry, T70...not so much. Also, they become useless as soon as the shreks come out.

@Fish

I'd forgot to mention the absurd reinforcement cost on partisans. Why would I waste 33MP on a unit that gets killed by a rather nasty glare from an axis player? Harassing the enemy behind the lines is all well and good until mid to late game where Axis have the Panthers and heavies out and you're left with no IS2 and no T34-85 to counter them.

Riddle me this - as Ostheer, how one kills IS2 supported by 3x SU76 and covered by P47?
Answer is - he does not.

SU76 might not look OP on its own but it definitely helps to create some abusive, cheesy scenarios in which no matter what you do - you are fucked.

Riddle me this - as Soviet, how one kills Tiger supported by 2 Stugs and a pak (with TWP) and covered by Stuka close air support (the ability not the doctrine). Answer is: L2P.

Look, without the help of a partner i have the same setup with a similar cost. Shocking!

4 SU-76s = 300 fuel spent on tank destroyers ... you don't think that 300 fuel spent on tank destroyers should destroy a tank? That's more than an Elefant costs.

Not to mention that unlike an Elefant, the SU-76s lose 1/4 of their DPS (and 75 fuel) every two times the KT fires. If the KT knocks one of them out and then retreats the soviet player loses 75 fuel and 280(?) MP while the OKW player has lost nothing.

Oh I think 4 SU-76s should destroy tanks, just not KTs.

And I'm pretty sure the SU-76 is faster in a straight line than a KT is reversing.....

And there's plenty that can destroy Panthers, the AT gun, T-34-85, SU-85, IS-2, ISU, hell even cheap mines help a lot. Even with a Penn nerf on the SU-76, the sovs aren't lacking in options.

@Fistfunk.

I have never, ever, in the life of me seen someone call T-70s and KV-8s bad. You're the first. T-70s get outshone now because the M5 is too good in the current meta.

They need a little less penetration, that said they shouldn't be nerfed to complete shit against heavy armor unless they get proportionally buffed in the anti infantry department because the barrage is kinda shitty and auto attack misses inf all the time. IMO SU76 would be best if it was basically a cheaper, slightly more agile, but less durable Brumbar (no barrage ability but fired explosive aoe rounds by default). The SU76 isn't a insanely broken unit right now. It is a good unit, and the reason people are spamming them is because they are forced in to the same tier building now. Why tech T34 or SU85, even though they are still better vs infantry and tanks respectively, when you have to make an additional building to get them and the SU76 is just slightly inferior. By the time you can get 1 SU85 you could have 2 almost 3 SU76s.

Yes, I'm in favour of a Barrage buff if Penn gets nerfed, so its as accurate as the ZIS-3 for maybe 20-30 muni. Hell make barrage free with good accuracy and I'd be happuly.

It comes as a early-mid game unit, it should stay that way, not be a late game killing machine killing tanks it had no chance of fighting irl (Kills KTs really)

If you nerf the SU76 you will remove a number of options for the Soviet player since they will need to tech to T4 to deal with late German armor. As it stands a Soviet player can decide not to tech up and use other strategies. If you make them sink another tanks worth of fuel in tech cost than a number of possible options are lost.

Stop trying to counter SU76 with tanks, long and short of it.

The barrage is a nice bonus to the unit but it is only able to decrew paks with lucky shots. With more light vehicle play plan on getting a HT and recrewing paks quickly if you lose one. Paks are extremely dangerous for SU76's. A single bit of poor pathing and they are gone.

As OKW this is even easier. Get JP (or JT), puma, or a couple of rakentens. Mix in some shreked volks to really get nasty.

Soviet T3 is quite good, if anything needs to be done it is just a slight fuel increase to delay their appearance until slightly later.

+111111

SU-76 is finally decent = outraged cry from Axis only players.
Everything as expected.

SU-76 is finally decent = outraged cry from Axis only players.
Everything as expected.

Bet you didn't read the entire thread. No one is outraged here, I just find SU-76 performance too comically good in the AT department despite its real war time record - it wasn't bad, but it could never dream of fighting tigers and KTs unlike in CoH2 now.

(I guess it works both ways, you don't see Tigers, Elefants and Tiger 2s breaking down in CoH2 ^^)

But seriously another thing I'd nerf would be Puma Penn, really shouldn't go through M4s and T-34s frontally.

Yeah, as you can tell, I'm all for historical authenticity if plausible and not gamebreaking regardless of faction

They need a little less penetration, that said they shouldn't be nerfed to complete shit against heavy armor unless they get proportionally buffed in the anti infantry department because the barrage is kinda shitty and auto attack misses inf all the time. IMO SU76 would be best if it was basically a cheaper, slightly more agile, but less durable Brumbar (no barrage ability but fired explosive aoe rounds by default). The SU76 isn't a insanely broken unit right now. It is a good unit, and the reason people are spamming them is because they are forced in to the same tier building now. Why tech T34 or SU85, even though they are still better vs infantry and tanks respectively, when you have to make an additional building to get them and the SU76 is just slightly inferior. By the time you can get 1 SU85 you could have 2 almost 3 SU76s.

So, 3 AI units in Soviet T3? Tech through T2 or lose to first tank and gtfo?
No, thanks. I like variety.

Oh I think 4 SU-76s should destroy tanks, just not KTs.

And I'm pretty sure the SU-76 is faster in a straight line than a KT is reversing.....

And there's plenty that can destroy Panthers, the AT gun, T-34-85, SU-85, IS-2, ISU, hell even cheap mines help a lot. Even with a Penn nerf on the SU-76, the sovs aren't lacking in options.

@Fistfunk.

I have never, ever, in the life of me seen someone call T-70s and KV-8s bad. You're the first. T-70s get outshone now because the M5 is too good in the current meta.

I'm not convinced by the T-70, but the KV-8? Are you kidding? Seriously? How often do you see it in a game? They're garbage for the cost.

A truly awful tank. Not to mention they come out at 8 CP, so shrek blobs are in full effect.

p.s 'fistfunk' is a new one. Pretty rubbish though.

Bet you didn't read the entire thread. No one is outraged here, I just find SU-76 performance too comically good in the AT department despite its real war time record - it wasn't bad, but it could never dream of fighting tigers and KTs unlike in CoH2 now.

(I guess it works both ways, you don't see Tigers, Elefants and Tiger 2s breaking down in CoH2 ^^)

But seriously another thing I'd nerf would be Puma Penn, really shouldn't go through M4s and T-34s frontally.

Yeah, as you can tell, I'm all for historical authenticity if plausible and not gamebreaking regardless of faction

I really don't see the problem, I just had a game there and my triple vetted su76 still didn't pen panthers and KT's every shot. It's not like 3 su76's are one shotting your panthers or KT's or even getting them down to half hp. You have plenty of time to react and get the hell out of there.

You need to let this wartime thing go, this is a game based on ww2. It's not a simulator. That's why your squad doesn't disintegrate every time any tank shoots near them.

If you want to talk realism, why doesn't a kubel get annihilated by my zis (when I finally hit the bastard)?

I'm not convinced by the T-70, but the KV-8? Are you kidding? Seriously? How often do you see it in a game? They're garbage for the cost.

A truly awful tank. Not to mention they come out at 8 CP, so shrek blobs are in full effect.

p.s 'fistfunk' is a new one. Pretty rubbish though.

It's situational, you won't build it every game but it has a few things going for it.

1. Really good at killing infantry
2. Pretty good armour for when it arrives
3. Good amount of health
4. Still has that main gun to kill Light vehicles.

Unless if its been nerfed in the past 2-3 months its still a really good option, you wouldn't send it into a bunch of stugs but if the axis player is just been gren/MG spamming, it just roasts them. + Because of its armour it can actually kinda push into PaKs for decades.

So, 3 AI units in Soviet T3? Tech through T2 or lose to first tank and gtfo?
No, thanks. I like variety.

If it was like that it should be moved back to T4.

I really don't see the problem, I just had a game there and my triple vetted su76 still didn't pen panthers and KT's every shot. It's not like 3 su76's are one shotting your panthers or KT's or even getting them down to half hp. You have plenty of time to react and get the hell out of there.

You need to let this wartime thing go, this is a game based on ww2. It's not a simulator. That's why your squad doesn't disintegrate every time any tank shoots near them.

If you want to talk realism, why doesn't a kubel get annihilated by my zis (when I finally hit the bastard)?

Firstly the kubel should get annihilated, anything less is bad design.

Secondly, yes it may not be a WW2 simulator but it may as well be DoW4 if it didn't follow historical realism to an extent.

For me the furthest artistic licence should go is SU-76s killing Panthers. It really shouldnt be killing Tigers and KTs. I mean, there's a reason why the Soviets upgunned their T-34-85s and built IS-2s, SU-85s (which was actually a stopgap to ->) and SU-100s - because those tanks actually have a fighting chance against Tigers and KTs.

Now if the Sovs were lacking proper AT options then yes, maaaaaaybe give the SU-76 its current stats. It's not.

At the same time, I don't want to see Vasilly Zaitzayov (I'm on a phone and don't know how to spell) man the AT role of the SU-76 and a vodka infused gunner man the AI role. Barrage should be buffed with Penn being nerfed. Doing both

A) wouldn't break the unit
B) Give it the proper dual roles it has and should have
C) lo and behold lets the vehicle follow history.

If the SU-76 became this, I would still build it, its still strong early to mid game.

To put it into context, it is the only vehicle that has a maximum operating window from 5th-7th minute to the end of the game as it stands.

Firstly the kubel should get annihilated, anything less is bad design.

Secondly, yes it may not be a WW2 simulator but it may as well be DoW4 if it didn't follow historical realism to an extent.

For me the furthest artistic licence should go is SU-76s killing Panthers. It really shouldnt be killing Tigers and KTs. I mean, there's a reason why the Soviets upgunned their T-34-85s and built IS-2s, SU-85s (which was actually a stopgap to ->) and SU-100s - because those tanks actually have a fighting chance against Tigers and KTs.

Now if the Sovs were lacking proper AT options then yes, maaaaaaybe give the SU-76 its current stats. It's not.

At the same time, I don't want to see Vasilly Zaitzayov (I'm on a phone and don't know how to spell) man the AT role of the SU-76 and a vodka infused gunner man the AI role. Barrage should be buffed with Penn being nerfed. Doing both

A) wouldn't break the unit
B) Give it the proper dual roles it has and should have
C) lo and behold lets the vehicle follow history.

If the SU-76 became this, I would still build it, its still strong early to mid game.

To put it into context, it is the only vehicle that has a maximum operating window from 5th-7th minute to the end of the game as it stands.

Yeah, glad we agree. It's bullshit. I've never killed a kubel on full health with one hit from a ZiS, perhaps other SOV players can corroborate this?

Again, if you're going for historical realism, there were less than 500 KT's ever built. Yet I seem to see them every game on this. For historical realism reasons, they should probably just be removed.

So for you, artistic license is - exploding shell from tank landing less than 2 feet from a squad, none of them die - fine. Tank Destroyer actually penetrating a tank and doing SOME (not HUGE) damage - beyond the pale. Is that about right?

I still see ZERO issue with su76's damaging KT's and Tigers. Stugs damage my IS2.

Like I said, it's not like your KT or Tiger is getting massively chewed up from 3 Su-76's, you have plenty of time to retreat and rep up and try a different tactic. As Axis have been telling Allies for years now 'flank'.

As a point of interest, when the SU-76 was completely useless and never built during games for all those years before it finally got buffed.....were you calling for it to be buffed? Or were you quite happy with it being useless like 99% of Axis players?

Also, please keep a track of your next 20 games and tell me how many KV8's you see, thanks.