SU-76 issues

Maybe making the su76 a bit slower would be a good way too balance it.
Personally I think it should probably just have its pen reduced or cost 5 more fuel and see how that works out.

nah, making an SU-76 means waiting that much longer for an SU-85. It does 120 damage, which isn't negligible but isn't major either. Nerf it now and it will never be made. These posts whining about an SU-76 dealing damage to their precious panther are a joke.

Most people here complaining about it really haven't used it. It's sluggish, has a narrow firing arc and turns like shit.

"oh noes the SU-76 now has a chance to penetrate my armor, nerf it"

lol, please

I dont see how Su-76s are a problem. The reason why they are amazing now because of tier change. I dont think it needs any modifications.

nah, making an SU-76 means waiting that much longer for an SU-85. It does 120 damage, which isn't negligible but isn't major either. Nerf it now and it will never be made. These posts whining about an SU-76 dealing damage to their precious panther are a joke.

Most people here complaining about it really haven't used it. It's sluggish, has a narrow firing arc and turns like shit.

"oh noes the SU-76 now has a chance to penetrate my armor, nerf it"

lol, please

The thing is in 1v1s/2v2s, SU-85s arent being built because the penn on the SU-76 is more than adequate. 3v3 and 4v4 maps tend to be far less chokepointy so I can see SU-76 wouldn't be as problematic in those games, but on maps like, say, Semoisky or Stalingrad, its a big problem.

And ppl end up using turn boost bulletins to counter it and by the time a Panther comes out, you tend to see 2-3 SU-76s on the field already, especially if you're OKW.

120 damage may not be major... assuming you have only one. 2-3 of them tends to become major, esp since you have 2-3 to kill.

EDIT: Just checked the patch notes and the SU-76 hasn't been changed from the last patch apart from being moved to Tier 3. It always had the same penn, the difference is it's now spammable.

EDIT: Just checked the patch notes and the SU-76 hasn't been changed from the last patch apart from being moved to Tier 3. It always had the same penn, the difference is it's now spammable.

SU-76
The performance of the Su-76 was not meeting our expectations. We felt its biggest problem was its lack of define role. We decided to improve the stats of the SU-76 so it can serve as a light tank destroyer. The SU-76 will still retain its versatility through the use of its barrage ability.

Health increased from 320 to 400
Penetration increased from 90/ 100/ 110 to 180/ 190 / 200
Cost increased from 240/70 to 280 / 75

SU-76
The performance of the Su-76 was not meeting our expectations. We felt its biggest problem was its lack of define role. We decided to improve the stats of the SU-76 so it can serve as a light tank destroyer. The SU-76 will still retain its versatility through the use of its barrage ability.

Health increased from 320 to 400
Penetration increased from 90/ 100/ 110 to 180/ 190 / 200
Cost increased from 240/70 to 280 / 75

I'm talking about the July 21st patch which is the only relevant one because it significantly changed the role and timing of the SU-76.

The patch you referred to happened back in the day when the SU-76 had to compete against the SU-85. Now, it doesn't, but it still retains the same stats which IMO is an oversight by relic.

In the past, you never got a SU-76 out in 5-10 minutes. Now, its possible to do so.

"back in the day" as in, June 23rd? about one month ago?

Your complaint was that you weren't able to wipe out the SUs with your Panther, and were taking "too much" damage against "packs" of SU-76s.

I mean, wtf? If multiple TDs can't fend off or kill one Panther, why would anyone make them? Have you used them yourself yet?

The SU-76 has a multiple role of barrage and AT.

Barrage from a pack of SU-76 tends to prove lethal to any infantry. You may dodge a lot if you listen out for barrages but you can't hear them all. Don't get me wrong, I do not have a problem with its barrage performance.

The SU-76 however, does ludicrously well against heavy armour. For a unit that comes out in the first 5-10 minutes, and has the mobility and usefulness that the SU-76 has in the early-mid game, I find this ridiculous.

IMO the SU-76, as it did in WW2, should be able to stop armour as heavy as Pz 4s (Ie proper medium armour) and have trouble fighting against Panthers, Tigers and Elefants frontally as it did in the war. And even then the SU-76 comes out a lot earlier than the Pz 4, esp for OKW but also for Ostheer.

That is what I find acceptable performance of the SU-76. The current implementation takes artistic licence to in my eyes an unacceptable level.

Dealing with panthers? Then Tech and build the proper TDs like SU-85s or T-34-85s that were actually built to deal with Panthers and Tigers.

The issue isn't that the SU-76 can preform the roll of a TD now; it's just that it does it at a pretty unmatched efficiency for it's cost. In the competitive game modes the SU-85 is RIP and SU-76's do have a fair amount of utility in the barrage.

EDIT: Nobody is asking to make it useless again, it should either do slightly less pen or only have 50 range.

The reason I do not use the SU-76 for now is because, IMO, its very unbalanced.

And I don't like using very unbalanced units in a strategy game.

Same went for the Maxims and MG42s when they were OP 2 years ago.

Same went for German Strafe 2 years ago.

Once again, history may not be used to fully balance the game, but there has to be a limit to how much artistic licence can be used. Otherwise, it becomes Company of Placeholders as someone called it earlier.

Artistic license is already used in quite a few ways, if you complain that the SU-76 is too effective, why not the identical ZiS-3 AT Gun? What about the Puma using a 50mm gun that can penetrate Shermans and T-34's? Why can the two-man crew T-70 rotate the gun, fire the MG, and reload at the same time? Etc.

And if you want to argue realism, the SU-76 is the second most common armoured vehicle behind the T-34 Tank, so by that logic we should see a lot of them.

Artistic license is already used in quite a few ways, if you complain that the SU-76 is too effective, why not the identical ZiS-3 AT Gun? What about the Puma using a 50mm gun that can penetrate Shermans and T-34's?

And if you want to argue realism, the SU-76 is the second most common armoured vehicle behind the T-34 Tank, so by that logic we should see a lot of them.

Agreed. I'd have to confess that the Puma shouldn't be able to deal with the Shermans and T-34s frontally but I haven't really used Pumas for quite some time.

The SU-76 may be the second most common armoured vehicle, but you don't see SU-76 cutting through Panthers, Tigers and Elefant's armour like butter.

Static AT guns, on the other hand, because of their lack of mobility, should have some degree of artistic licence given to them as they would be primarily defensive weapons due to their mobility and can be stolen easily. You don't need a lucky abandoned crit to decrew AT guns but you do need it for vehicles.

Jagdtiger barrage cost monition - so mutch for consistency

I start to think some people should read posts here with dictionary next to them, checking every word and double checking if they haven't missed any.

Reread my post, recheck what "default" means.

The only unbalanced unit in Soviet T3 is M5 quad. Neither SU-76 nor T-70 fit to that category.

I guess soon we will have "Over powered" topic for each one of Soviet units...

If we're going to go the historical/realistic route when it comes to penetration its worth noting that there is no side armor in the game, and the SU76 could reliably penetrate side and rear armor. If it shouldn't penetrate front armor of these tanks how should this be compensated in terms of game mechanics? =)

Even though I feel the whole realism argument is null and void for this game.

If you think the SU-76 is OP, try spamming shreks and AT-guns with a little puma or Panther support. I hear it works wonders.

If we were to reduce the penetration, SU-76 will be a underused unit again and we don't want that. The only thing we need to do is increase it's cost and that is it. The biggest problem facing SU-76 is the blob factor.

If we were to reduce the penetration, SU-76 will be a underused unit again and we don't want that. The only thing we need to do is increase it's cost and that is it. The biggest problem facing SU-76 is the blob factor.

Uh, they could reduce it's pen by like twenty and it would still have greater than 80% chance to always pen all Axis medium tanks. That sure doesn't sound useless to me!

If you think the SU-76 is OP, try spamming shreks and AT-guns with a little puma or Panther support. I hear it works wonders.

I like how 90% of the suggestions ITT are either A. Go mobile defense or B. Just play OKW

If we were to reduce the penetration, SU-76 will be a underused unit again and we don't want that. The only thing we need to do is increase it's cost and that is it. The biggest problem facing SU-76 is the blob factor.

Blob factor? Where does this Blob factor occur and how is it countering AT weapon spam with a little armor support?

Blob factor? Where does this Blob factor occur and how is it countering AT weapon spam with a little armor support?

Man, I have faced 3+ SU-76 and they wrecked all armor and support weapons. The guy I faced had spot on micro tho.