M26 Pershing/Calliope Debate
28 Jul 2015, 22:58 PM
#1
Posts: 758
Ever since seeing that alpha leak picture before it got removed got me wondering will those 2 vehicles make a combat debut when the brit update comes out in September. experience from previous comp stomps have shown the USF is in DIRE need of a heavy tank and some form of rocket artillery because all the other factions get one. Another reason why USF needs a heavy tank because most if not all of their tanks have no ability go through thick shrubbery or wooded areas like the german heavies, panther, IS-2 and ISU-152 can making flanking maneuvers that relic so emphasizes for the USF not always practical or possible
28 Jul 2015, 23:01 PM
#2
Posts: 314
How does "experience from previous comp stomps" prove that USF need a heavy tank like the Pershing? Besides, the USF already have a heavy tank, it's called the Sherman Bulldozer.
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28 Jul 2015, 23:03 PM
#3
Posts: 432
Sorry to be a dick here, but it's not even a "debate" Relic has said straight up that the USF won't be getting the Pershing.
Pretty sure they said they won't be getting the Calliope either, but don't quote me on that.
Pretty sure they said they won't be getting the Calliope either, but don't quote me on that.
28 Jul 2015, 23:17 PM
#4
Posts: 758
How does "experience from previous comp stomps" prove that USF need a heavy tank like the Pershing? Besides, the USF already have a heavy tank, it's called the Sherman Bulldozer.
Shermans were classified as medium tanks not heavy tanks BIG difference. and comp stomps provide invaluable insight on the performance of the units. in-game shermans can only take 3-4 shots from the axis heavies before they are destroyed comp stomp included. M36 Jacksons are not the answer either because they need armor or infantry support to escort them in order to protect themselves. therefore USF is in DIRE need of a tank that can take more 4 than hits and have an even harder hitting gun. thats why USF needs the M26 Pershing
28 Jul 2015, 23:21 PM
#5
Posts: 2561
Sorry to be a dick here, but it's not even a "debate" Relic has said straight up that the USF won't be getting the Pershing.They never said that. The leaks have been all over, we've all seen them. Now the only questions are when and how.
Pretty sure they said they won't be getting the Calliope either, but don't quote me on that.
28 Jul 2015, 23:26 PM
#6
Posts: 618
They never said that. The leaks have been all over, we've all seen them. Now the only questions are when and how.
Actually they did, but they've made up their mind I guess.
28 Jul 2015, 23:31 PM
#7
Posts: 432
They never said that. The leaks have been all over, we've all seen them. Now the only questions are when and how.
Actually they did, those are going to be call in/build related to the UKF. USF will be going without, but they will eventually get a 60mm mortar... I think.
28 Jul 2015, 23:34 PM
#8
Posts: 314
Shermans were classified as medium tanks not heavy tanks BIG difference. and comp stomps provide invaluable insight on the performance of the units. in-game shermans can only take 3-4 shots from the axis heavies before they are destroyed comp stomp included. M36 Jacksons are not the answer either because they need armor or infantry support to escort them in order to protect themselves. therefore USF is in DIRE need of a tank that can take more 4 than hits and have an even harder hitting gun. thats why USF needs the M26 Pershing
Sherman Bulldozer is a heavy tank though since it has more armour and gets more survivability with veterency. Comp stomps don't provide anything worth of value, so bringing in "statistics" from a comp stomp is pointless; the USF are in a pretty damned good spot without the Pershing. Shermans, Sherman Bulldozers tank enemy fire while Jacksons deal high damage from a long range; if you can't make this work then it's a L2P issue
USF relies on combined arms, so if you're losing jacksons then that means you're not supporting them properly and/or using them wrong.
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28 Jul 2015, 23:38 PM
#9
Posts: 2053
Meh. Any sherman variant is game.
Calliope
Crocodile
76mm shermans
Jumbo
Shermans arent heavy tanks, especially one with less armor than the E8 and 720 odd hp (crapdozer, the one that magically gains survivability with vet, but actually vets like a normal sherman which does not involve survivability)
And... Relic did say no heavy tanks for USF but apparently they had a Pershing in the works (overrated tank that did not serve in the Battle of the Bulge, unlike some sherman variants i just mentioned). As well as calliope model and stuff.
Also, i stopped reading the post at "compstomp". Nvm, read to the part that said ISU's can somehow flank things.
Btw, ignore RE for the sake of the universe.
Calliope
Crocodile
76mm shermans
Jumbo
Shermans arent heavy tanks, especially one with less armor than the E8 and 720 odd hp (crapdozer, the one that magically gains survivability with vet, but actually vets like a normal sherman which does not involve survivability)
And... Relic did say no heavy tanks for USF but apparently they had a Pershing in the works (overrated tank that did not serve in the Battle of the Bulge, unlike some sherman variants i just mentioned). As well as calliope model and stuff.
Also, i stopped reading the post at "compstomp". Nvm, read to the part that said ISU's can somehow flank things.
Btw, ignore RE for the sake of the universe.
28 Jul 2015, 23:45 PM
#10
Posts: 2053
Lol edit post fail
28 Jul 2015, 23:53 PM
#11
Posts: 618
Actually they did, those are going to be call in/build related to the UKF. USF will be going without, but they will eventually get a 60mm mortar... I think.
They aren't going to be for the UKF. It clearly had the USF skin. The person who spawned them was just playing as the UKF, thus it spawned the Pershing with the British decals.
28 Jul 2015, 23:57 PM
#12
4 Posts: 505
I'm not too assed about the Pershing. To be honest. As A Brit commander call-in? Meh, good enough for me.
What I would like to see is a handful of new U.S. Commanders that really utilise different Sherman types to make the faction more laterally robust a la the 'faction that bends but never breaks' concept. I think doctrinal upgrades to core tech Shermans, such as purchase able calliope racks, crab flails for mobile sweeping and crocodile variants could all be integral pieces of different commanders.
With a mortar added to Core tech also this could really turn US into a versatile faction late-game. After all dem Rifles done been built!
What I would like to see is a handful of new U.S. Commanders that really utilise different Sherman types to make the faction more laterally robust a la the 'faction that bends but never breaks' concept. I think doctrinal upgrades to core tech Shermans, such as purchase able calliope racks, crab flails for mobile sweeping and crocodile variants could all be integral pieces of different commanders.
With a mortar added to Core tech also this could really turn US into a versatile faction late-game. After all dem Rifles done been built!
29 Jul 2015, 00:03 AM
#13
Posts: 758
Meh. Any sherman variant is game.
Calliope
Crocodile
76mm shermans
Jumbo
Shermans arent heavy tanks, especially one with less armor than the E8 and 720 odd hp (crapdozer, the one that magically gains survivability with vet, but actually vets like a normal sherman which does not involve survivability)
And... Relic did say no heavy tanks for USF but apparently they had a Pershing in the works (overrated tank that did not serve in the Battle of the Bulge, unlike some sherman variants i just mentioned). As well as calliope model and stuff.
Also, i stopped reading the post at "compstomp". Nvm, read to the part that said ISU's can somehow flank things.
Btw, ignore RE for the sake of the universe.
i don't know whether to say thank you or say that was a deadpan snarky sarcastic remark
29 Jul 2015, 00:08 AM
#14
Posts: 245
I wouldn't mention compstops around here. Everyone knows that compstomps don't mean anything and people will immediately form an impression about anyone who does them. I know that I did.
29 Jul 2015, 00:10 AM
#15
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Give the Sherman a dozer upgrade and call it a day for crushing terrain if USF really needs a crusher or if you really hate shrubbery, shoot the terrain peice with attack ground. As for Pershing and Calliope, only if they are doctrinal and are in separate docs.
USF doesn't need these things aside from having more toys to play with. Their core just needs some tuning, not redesigns or crazy overhauls. And they should not be crutching on these units like Soviets were a patch or so ago.
USF doesn't need these things aside from having more toys to play with. Their core just needs some tuning, not redesigns or crazy overhauls. And they should not be crutching on these units like Soviets were a patch or so ago.
29 Jul 2015, 00:16 AM
#16
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Sherman Bulldozer is a heavy tank though since it has more armour and gets more survivability with veterency.
I thought Panthers were mediums too though
Also, I'm pretty sure the Dozer doesn't get more survivability from vet.
29 Jul 2015, 00:16 AM
#17
Posts: 758
Give the Sherman a dozer upgrade and call it a day for crushing terrain if USF really needs a crusher or if you really hate shrubbery, shoot the terrain peice with attack ground. As for Pershing and Calliope, only if they are doctrinal and are in separate docs.
USF doesn't need these things aside from having more toys to play with. Their core just needs some tuning, not redesigns or crazy overhauls. And they should not be crutching on these units like Soviets were a patch or so ago.
sherman dozer may have a 105mm howitzer but its made to tackle infantry, light armor and structures. its not like the ISU-152 unfortunately. you may be entitled to your own opinion but i still champion the idea of putting the pershing into the USF arsenel especially if a lot of people such as myself are asking for it
29 Jul 2015, 00:31 AM
#18
Posts: 2561
Maybe they said they had no plans early on. Relic would never say that they would never do something unless there was 0 possibility of it being in game. The fact that their statements turned into "we have no plans" into "we can't talk about that" is still pretty telling.
29 Jul 2015, 01:14 AM
#19
Posts: 758
Maybe they said they had no plans early on. Relic would never say that they would never do something unless there was 0 possibility of it being in game. The fact that their statements turned into "we have no plans" into "we can't talk about that" is still pretty telling.
man thats a real lame ass excuse on relic's part would have been better if they came clean and said we plan to add the pershing later on or someday if a lot people ask for it
29 Jul 2015, 01:32 AM
#20
Posts: 1026
They probably didn't originally plan to put Pershing in, but when they decided to put in late war stuff with Brits (e.g. Comet tank we've seen in screens) maybe they felt it was time to release some new content for USF along the same lines. A lot of people have asked for it and it would be a way to spice up the USF late game.
It definitely feels as though everyone gets all their coolest toys except the USF. Soviets aren't missing too much late war kit, SU-100 maybe. OKW / OH wouldn't have anything much to add in terms of late 44 / early 45 units since the Germans were collapsing at the time. But USF and Brits can both benefit a lot from late war models in terms of unit diversity.
It definitely feels as though everyone gets all their coolest toys except the USF. Soviets aren't missing too much late war kit, SU-100 maybe. OKW / OH wouldn't have anything much to add in terms of late 44 / early 45 units since the Germans were collapsing at the time. But USF and Brits can both benefit a lot from late war models in terms of unit diversity.
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