USF: Bleed Infantry, Paper Armor, DOA weapon crews

Defensive stance needs a rework, but it is hardly "easy" to avoid grenades. Either you pop it and lose the bonuses, and begin a cool down timer, or you retreat. Played against it many times, while good and gimmicky its in no way unstoppable. ISG for OKW is a reliable threat to rifles doing this now too, and for a reasonable cost. If you want to get real nasty get a stuka and fire it on retreat path.

Not sure where you decided people wanted more "blobbyness" from in prior posts. Seems like people want rifles to be able to function by themselves so they don't have to blob. Lack of suppression units is a core problem with OKW, and a poor decision. Wehr obviously has no problem now that MG42 is T0 and still less than rifles per unit.

Defensive stance has no cool down timer. You can turn it on and off at will.

I've never really understood this "rifles scale poorly" argument, flamers/m1919's give you upgrades that vastly outperform lmg grens/volks on any map at any stage of the game.

Defensive stance is pure bs that lets you beat 440mp falls with a 70 muni upgrade. I'm pretty sure if the gren MG42 could suppress shock troops there would be pure outrage

Even assuming the flamer and m1919 are good, they are still doctrinal.


Bar needs to be cheaper. 60 mu is just too expensive. (or the lmg need an overhaul. the mg42, mg34, and m1919 completely dominate infantry combat atm)

Doctrine choice is hardly an issue, short range map you can basically do what you want as BAR/flamer spam will kill everything. Even on a map like minsk you have choices, 50.cals, BAR pathfinders, m1919 rifles and paras are all good and they're hardly "locking" your doctrine options when USF don't have to rely on doctrinal call ins at all.

rifle company is dlc, so flamer is just encouraging Pay2win. I also prefer not needing to pick infantry doctrine if I want rifle to scale well at a reasonable price.

I think saying rifles with 1919's "scale well" is a bit of an understatement considering using defensive stance (or without even) they can take on even the most powerful elite infantry. On open maps 1919 spam (be it Airborne or just rifles) is horrible to play against.

I think saying rifles with 1919's "scale well" is a bit of an understatement considering using defensive stance (or without even) they can take on even the most powerful elite infantry. On open maps 1919 spam (be it Airborne or just rifles) is horrible to play against.

this is just arguing semantic. Forcing the USF to go infantry for a decent/good/strong/pickyourterm upgrade is boring and stagnate gameplay.


if the bar is fine for 60mu, then the lmgs are overpowered.

this is just arguing semantic. Forcing the USF to go infantry for a decent/good/strong/pickyourterm upgrade is boring and stagnate gameplay.


if the bar is fine for 60mu, then the lmgs are overpowered.

The reason why the BAR costs 60 muni is because you can just give it to whoever. Only grens can get LMG42's and Obers get LMG34's. Although I do think it could get maybe a slight performance boost right now it's fairly good.

Vet scaling between basic infantry units is very, very similar. To wit;

Grens:

Unlocks the 'Field First Aid' ability
+40% accuracy,
-20% cooldown, -25% recharge time for Panzerfaust, -23% received accuracy
Cons:
Unlocks the 'Trip Wire Flares' ability
+40% accuracy, +25% molotov range
-20% weapon cooldown, -23% received accuracy, -25% AT grenade recharge
Volks:

-10% received accuracy
+30% accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
Passive Healing, -10% received accuracy
+40% sight range, +30% accuracy
-30% cooldown, -30% reload

Riflemen:

Unlocks the 'Anti-Tank Rifle Grenade' ability
-23% received accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown
+30% accuracy, -50% ability recharge time, +25% grenade range

Thats just it though, USF pays 280mp for their infantry, and they get inferior veterancy compared to other factions' mainline infantry (10% accuracy is HUGE, especially since it affects weapon upgrades.

Riflemen need more survivability in the lategame if they are expected to cost slightly less per model than grenadiers. They are a close combat unit (Bars do best damage at close, and only at close can they reliably beat lmg grens) that is

1) Not cheap to reinforce per model like conscripts
2) Not able to sprint into effective range like Ass Grens and Conscripts
3) Not survivable like Shocktroopers

As a result, they will bleed far more in the lategame than other respective units. This problem becomes even worse when you take into account the fact that USF pays a very large amount of popcap just for their officers and healing vehicle, as well as the fact that USF relies on low HP units that are not cheap like T34/76s nor survivable like P4s and medium TDs.

A mortar would definitely help USF's early game, but rifleman scaling needs to be looked at as well. Either through rifle veterancy, or a global unlock.

Defensive stance has no cool down timer. You can turn it on and off at will.

It has a cooldown after you turn it off. (about 10 seconds I believe)

Rifles with m1919's will out trade obers, or any other OKW infantry due to free supression. If you think 28mp is expensive try dealing with 50mp per model and a much longer reinforce time.

Everyone seems to fixate on rifle lmgs. They are not an argument for rifles scaling well.

They are in 1 doctrine, which immediatly shows that rifleman are only scaling when they are giving a noncore unlock.

They are also overperforming (defensive stance), which means that they are not a good reflection of what the base unit can do lategame.

axis still hogs and hoards all of the best AT, armor and infantry in-game they want it to stay that way so they can keep curb stomping the allies like its a piece of cake

They are really, really stupidly difficult to play, especially in late game now. I'm speaking mainly from a 2v2 perspective.

When multiple Axis super-heavies are out in the very late game, GOOD LUCK. You can't spam out EZ8's anymore due to the tech requirement (more fuel), and AT guns have incredibly low survivability. You have the Jackson, but you can't use it offensively to chase and finish anything. So you essentially are forced into a stalemate where you sit on VPs/fuel and try not to get steamrolled by walking stuka + super armor. Meanwhile babysitting a crazy amount of units whilst the axis player babysits 2-4 big ones.

Essentially this problem has been playing CoH2 since WFA was released, but I'm blown away that the only buff USF got was the weapons rack combination. Unbelievable. I've been playing Heroes of the Storm and will continue to until Relic makes changes.

The reason why the BAR costs 60 muni is because you can just give it to whoever.

"whoever" meaning the rear echelon and patherfinder.

the rear echelon have weaker veterancy. Yes, you can put bars on rear echelon but it's a poorer long term investment than the rifles.

I am aware of the bar+pathfinder combo, and that's its own issue. Worst case scenario the pathfinder lose the ability to pick up weapons.

I get so sick of all the L2P posts. Forums are so full of trolls.

USF isn't just L2P issue - the faction sucks. There's like 3-4 units and few commanders that aren't completely broken. And there are massive holes in the tech - no heavy tanks, no rocket artillery, very little air power, no stock heavy infantry, and the darned support weapons are tech-split.

I know how to play, it's when I deviate from the extremely narrow and micro-intensive that I start to lose. There's just no room to branch out with the USF and the competitive element that there is is really bland.

The other thing too, most stuff the USF has just "doesn't quite work" - Capt "On ME" ability - only breaks suppression for the units around the capt but not the capt himself - what? Pack howitzer vet 2 barrage of 3 lousy shells changes to HEAT shells - but only for the barrage - what? Rear echelons have grenade launcher while inside fighting postion, but cant' have it outside, no other unit can fire grenade launcher in fighting position - what? Every time you heal you need to select the extremely vulnerable ambulence and heal - other factions don't have to do a thing. Why?

There's so many niche units, niche abilities, and so much micro. What if at the same moment that you're stunning/engine shotting a stug with you Stuart you also need to be clicking heal for your ambulence? It gets old quick. Why is USF so user-unfriendly.

Besides, nearly everyone's arguments about what is effective in the USF are mostly doctrinal - 1919s, paras, P47, easy 8 etc..

If you cant understand that USF isn't just a L2P you should Learn to Discuss.

Good post and I totally agree. There is no reason the ambulance shouldn't be auto-heal in the base sector. "On Me" should break suppression for Captain too. AP/HE round switch on Sherman needs to cut the delay in half.

USF is a very micro-demanding faction that doesn't reward you in proportion to the micro you're doing. Axis players with a few heavy tanks can do far less micro/macro and are rewarded more than you.

AP/HE round switch on Sherman needs to cut the delay in half.

the AP HE round switch takes 6 seconds, which is about the amount of time it would take for the sherman to reload normally.

this is a fairly "realistic" drawback as your crew is essentially ejecting the unspent round and loading in another one.

the AP HE round switch takes 6 seconds, which is about the amount of time it would take for the sherman to reload normally.

this is a fairly "realistic" drawback as your crew is essentially ejecting the unspent round and loading in another one.

meanwhile the panzer IV doesn't need to switch shells and it can do both anti-armor and anti-infantry duties

"whoever" meaning the rear echelon and patherfinder.

the rear echelon have weaker veterancy. Yes, you can put bars on rear echelon but it's a poorer long term investment than the rifles.

I am aware of the bar+pathfinder combo, and that's its own issue. Worst case scenario the pathfinder lose the ability to pick up weapons.

Tell this to Price

I get so sick of all the L2P posts. Forums are so full of trolls.

USF isn't just L2P issue - the faction sucks. There's like 3-4 units and few commanders that aren't completely broken. And there are massive holes in the tech - no heavy tanks, no rocket artillery, very little air power, no stock heavy infantry, and the darned support weapons are tech-split.

I know how to play, it's when I deviate from the extremely narrow and micro-intensive that I start to lose. There's just no room to branch out with the USF and the competitive element that there is is really bland.

The other thing too, most stuff the USF has just "doesn't quite work" - Capt "On ME" ability - only breaks suppression for the units around the capt but not the capt himself - what? Pack howitzer vet 2 barrage of 3 lousy shells changes to HEAT shells - but only for the barrage - what? Rear echelons have grenade launcher while inside fighting postion, but cant' have it outside, no other unit can fire grenade launcher in fighting position - what? Every time you heal you need to select the extremely vulnerable ambulence and heal - other factions don't have to do a thing. Why?

There's so many niche units, niche abilities, and so much micro. What if at the same moment that you're stunning/engine shotting a stug with you Stuart you also need to be clicking heal for your ambulence? It gets old quick. Why is USF so user-unfriendly.

Besides, nearly everyone's arguments about what is effective in the USF are mostly doctrinal - 1919s, paras, P47, easy 8 etc..

If you cant understand that USF isn't just a L2P you should Learn to Discuss.

+1

Defensive stance has no cool down timer. You can turn it on and off at will.

U be wrong

U be wrong

That is his main theme

When you turn it on you can instantly turn it off. That's what I meant about it having no cool down and it being easy to still dodge grenades.

axis still hogs and hoards all of the best AT, armor and infantry in-game they want it to stay that way so they can keep curb stomping the allies like its a piece of cake

This. Exactly this.

This is what people aren't getting. It's not just about the effectiveness of USF units. It's that USF is heavily limited in exotic units. Why the HECK is germany outperforming in airpower?.... of all the things.

The Axis factions in game generally have better tanks because they have more expensive tanks. Cost is directly related to performance (which is why something that is mediocre can excel if it's cheap enough).

Imbalance derives itself from mechanics, cost, and availability (all three related things but still distinct). For example the KT costs a lot, preforms well, but is inefficient.

Whats the point of playing USF currently. The whole faction is seriously lack on all fronts except for its "amazing base infantry unit" that doesn't scale and bleeds like no other.

Their armor hits the field late making its already paper thin armor impossible to keep alive let alone micro as most of their tanks lack the crush capability to crush dead friendly tanks.

Weapon crews are insta wiped as they only have 4 men and with the revived accuracy on them, they only tend to last a few seconds before they are wiped off the map.




This whole "USF" op thing, is bullshit. It needs to stop now and we need to rework USF for a more fair playing field, currently the faction has The Highest amount of micro required out of all factions as well as the worst pathfinding due to its lack of crush, making playing the faction a never ending roller coaster of frustration and units that tend to preform well only when the RNG gods are on your side.

Only a bad designed faction can get shut down in 5-6 mins and have useless infantry past the 10 min mark, not bad players, stop calling it a L2P issue and try this faction for yourself against simi decent players and watch you get steam rolled.


What is this faction supposed to not have bad between its poor armor, bleedy infantry, and dead weapon crews besides the P47? because I cant think of anything this faction has going for it.

I can say the same for both OKW and USF about how easily the infantry are paper. however, how are you playing your games? how often do you use cover and make green cover with your RE?

tanks come out at a good pace in my opinion.

The Infantry base is in a good spot, and like all my factions, using infantry as a base for my strategy is pretty good. how often do you get bars? how many squads do you give bars? how are you spending your fuel? how are you spending your munitions? how are you engaging certain units? what commanders do you often use? do you rotate your commanders?

How are you using your shermans and your jackons? how often do you use your indirect fire? how often are you getting suppression ei: howitzer, AA, HMG, M1919?

As for the meta point, how often do you panic? how often do you get impatient? how often do you get the adrenaline rush? how often do you think you are behind or ahead? how often do you get hot headed about getting caught off gaurd?